Shoutbox

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Originally posted by xBellox

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It isn't only about what is spoken the most.

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So, is about what?

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about everything what has been said in those many number of threads I listed in that other post in that other thread...

In my p.o.v. the Brazilian Portuguese might be considered as an "evolution" of the difference between the English used in the United States vs United Kingdom.
Besides the different accent (much like the spoken American English it to British), they got rid of the "c" and "p" in words where they were typed but not spelled, introduced many half Portuguese-half English words and have many more slang words that became official and some more minor differences. For example we use "ficheiro" a direct translation from "File" but they use "Arquivo" that is a direct translation of "Archive". That's pretty much it, most of the differences come from similar words that are no longer used fluently there.

I'm from Portugal and therefor am in a better position to talk about the differences. Since most of the Brazilians see us Portugal as a 3rd world country and don't care much about our culture. Here we have a lot of Brazilian shows on TV (like soap operas) and on Cable we have some Brazilian channels too.
So the culture flow is much bigger from there to here.
I'd like to read some comments about this from some Brazilians too.

Many, many, many other programs have only Brazilian translations, and probably because of the "flow" that I referred before, the Portuguese users got used to that more easily.
But in this case the Portuguese translation came before the Brazilian one. It's not that they can't understand it, it's just that they're not used to it. And as you can see the "arquivo" is the result of a bad translation.

Like shown in the other Thread, most of the languages' conflicts grow from the misuse of some words or expressions.
I dare you to find programs with Brazilian-only translations and point those which have forum threads of Portuguese users complaining.

I'm don't disagree with a Brazilian translation. If someone shows a great work, why not using it?

Thats very good i really support the idea and i strongly disagree with Gonçalo and the other guy which even told me to shut up in a pm..stupid guy..
I hope you people dont think all portuguese people are the same.


Patchou explained his reasons not to include the translations of the countries who adopted a certain language as their own but i still dont think its fair.


Be happy.

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Originally posted by paperless
1) Thats very good i really support the idea and i strongly disagree with Gonçalo and the other guy which even told me to shut up in a pm..stupid guy... 2) I hope you people dont think all portuguese people are the same. 3) Patchou explained his reasons not to include the translations of the countries who adopted a certain language as their own but i still dont think its fair.

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Thank´s Paperless for your reply.
1) In spite of everything, I don't have rage of Mr. Gonçalo or Mr. Edu115.
2) You can be sure that I don't judge anybody for other. I already said other times, I have great friends in Portugal and I like Portuguese people!
3) Thank´s. If one day he to understand different... I will always be willing to collaborate...
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Obrigado, Paperless por sua resposta.
1) Apesar de tudo, eu não tenho raiva do Sr. Gonçalo ou do Sr. Edu115.
2) Você pode ter certeza que eu não costumo julgar alguém por outros. Como eu já lhe disse antes, tenho grandes amigos em Portugal e gosto dos portuguêses!
3) Obrigado. Se um dia ele entender diferente... Eu estarei sempre disposto a colaborar...

Dr. Heyder

Hi Heyder,

I'd like to congratulate you for your great work. Your individual initiative and effort deserves a loud clap from all of us Messenger Plus Brazilian users.

Since I've read the discussion over pt x pt-BR, I'd like to leave my two cents:

Although Brazilian Portuguese was born from "European" Portuguese, they can not be considered as being the same language. Distant grown brothers, if we consider the written Portuguese, and really distant cousins if we consider the talked Portuguese . Languages are live things, that evolve and transform, adapting itself to the cultural and economic context. And Brazilian Portuguese grew apart from its distant brother, receiving influences from native people ("indios") and immigratory waves (japaneses, italians, germans, lebaneses etc). It's why it's called "Brazilian Portuguese", and not only "Portuguese";

Due this characteristic the "Brazilian Portuguese" is much more flexible and prone to accept neologism and foreignism. We do not bother in keep the word "mouse" to designate the input device, because the device does not resemble a "rato" for us. We use "monitor" (a short for "monitor de video") instead of "écran" (nobody knows the word "écran" in Brazil) because we already had this word from TV (sometimes we use "tela" to designate the specific area of the "monitor" where the images are displayed). We use "arquivo" for "file", and it is OK for us, because a "file" can contain a lot of "documents" - the same way a real "arquivo" does. And if somebody insists in the word "ficheiro" as a more specific translation for "file", even so it wouldn't be the correct word for us, because we use "fichário" instead of "ficheiro";

As we can see the roots of our language can be the same but nowadays there are some differences. And in specific areas, as computers and technology, there is *a lot* of diferences. It is so clear that a lot of big players in the software industry translated their softwares to Brazilian Portuguese. My Win2K is pt-BR. My Office2k too. And my CorelDraw Suite, my children's "The Sims 2", my TextPad (if somebody asks for an European company) are pt-BR. And my OpenOffice 2.0, and my Firefox too! And, mainly, my Messenger is pt-BR...

Well, what more can I say? It's really a pity that the author of the this great software don't deserves some attention to your initiative. Maybe you hadn't started it in a so organized way, as the "pt team" stated. But, wait! Was they a "managed", "organized" and "efficient" team when *they* started? I don't think so...

A final thought: don't get annoyed by some comments made by the "official portuguese team". What I could seen through these posts was not collaboration or constructive criticism. It's mainly vanity and jealousy. As our desire to use a good Brazilian localized version would be a threat for their "establishment"... I don't give a damn (sorry) to people who think like them. You shouldn't too. Keep the good work going, and if I can help you something you can count on me.

Um abraço

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Originally posted by m@c@ub@

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Caro m@c@ub@:
Muito obrigado por suas palavras. São por pessoas como você que me sinto impulsionado a continuar no esforço de manter esta tradução assiduamente atualizada. Concordo plenamente com você. É realmente uma pena que Patchou, que faz um software tão bonito e interessante, não se importe com os Brasileiros. Mas eu ainda tenho alguma esperança que ele mude de idéia.
Mais uma vez, obrigado por sua solidariedade. Se perceber algum erro, ou tiver alguma sugestão para o texto traduzido, não hesite em me contactar. Não deixe de baixar a última atualização aqui !
Grande abraço,
Heyder.
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Thank you very much for their words. Is for people like you that I am impelled to continue assiduously in the effort of maintaining this translation updated. I agree fully with you. Is really a sad that Patchou, that makes such a beautiful and interesting software, don't care with the Brazilian peoples. But I still have some hope that he change of idea. Once again, thank you for your solidarity. If you notices some mistake, or you has some suggestion for the translated text, don't hesitate in contacting me. Download the last update here !

[SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC]

Discussing this issue is good. Telling your thoughts is good. Even making suggestions or build upon and giving arguments is good.

But please stop the accusing and name calling towards some people, and especially towards Patchou.

It is extremely annoying that this name calling and hidden flaming keeps going on!!! This does not make your case look good. In fact if you keep this up, more and more people will start hating you for that.

What is so hard to understand that there are rules to be followed for adding a language? This has got nothing todo with Patchou not caring or even hating Brazilian people, because he does not!.

I constantly read insuations in the posts of Brazilian people that all non-Brazilians, and especially the Portuguese, are just jealus and can't give positive or constructive critism? Sorry but you do exact the same with these constant insinuations...

If you can't understand that not adding the translation has got nothing todo with Patchou not caring or hating Brazilian people, then it is not time for the others to rethink their arguments or motives, but you...

The objectivness I try to maintain while reading these discussions as an outsider is constantly dropping and my sympathy for this case  is more and more shifting towards the Portuguese side instead of staying in the middle....

I don't think these constant insinuations towards others and especially Patchou help at all in making the brazilian translation being added... on the contrary...

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Originally posted by xBellox
let´s do an "pedaaallaaaa robinho" or "pedallaaaa babacas" on the closed minds of this forum.

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Originally posted by m@c@ub@
t's really a pity that the author of the this great software don't deserves some attention to your initiative.

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Originally posted by m@c@ub@
What I could seen through these posts was not collaboration or constructive criticism. It's mainly vanity and jealousy. As our desire to use a good Brazilian localized version would be a threat for their "establishment"... I don't give a damn (sorry) to people who think like them.

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Originally posted by Heyder
Is really a sad that Patchou don't care with the Brazilian peoples.

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So after constantly reading these accusations I don't find it strange at all that other people heavly oppose the question for adding the Brazillian translation.

Is this how all Brazillians are? I hope not...

Discuss all you want, but please stick to facts and don't accuse people, nor Patchou, of being not-caring, jealus, close-minded, etc because more and more it seems that it is the opposite.

Please proof me wrong...

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* Note1: "you" and "your" are used as plural in this post. And this post is directed towards some (if not all) Brazilian people who have posted so far...

* Note2: I know I'm getting on very thin ice here with this post, and if I stepped on some toes of some people, then sorry for that. But this is, at the moment, how I think about this whole issue and IMHO this had to be said at this time. If I'm wrong in thinking that then by all means correct me...

[/SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
1) But please stop the accusing and name calling towards some people, and especially towards Patchou.
2) What is so hard to understand that there are rules to be followed for adding a language? This has got nothing todo with Patchou not caring or even hating Brazilian people, because he does not!.
3) I constantly read insuations in the posts of Brazilian people that all non-Brazilians, and especially the Portuguese, are just jealus and can't give positive or constructive critism? Sorry but you do exact the same with these constant insinuations...
4) If you can't understand that not adding the translation has got nothing todo with Patchou not caring or hating Brazilian people, then it is not time for the others to rethink their arguments or motives, but you...
5) The objectivness I try to maintain while reading these discussions as an outsider is constantly dropping and my sympathy for this case  is more and more shifting towards the Portuguese side instead of staying in the middle....
6) So after constantly reading these accusations I don't find it strange at all that other people heavly oppose the question for adding the Brazillian translation.
7) Is this how all Brazillians are? I hope not...

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1) Nobody is accusing nobody. Nobody is accusing Patchou. Of course, if Patchou is the creator of the software, is natural that the complaints are towards to him. I think that HE would owe, at least, to give a clear idea on his reason if to oppose to include the Portuguese from Brazil as official translation.
2) Rules? Which rules? Sorry, but I think that, this decision doesn't depend on rules. The creator of the program decides or no if a translation owes or not to do part of the program. Therefore, this has ALL todo with Patchou. I don't really understand because NOT. If more languages are available for a software, better for use it, more people will use it.
3/4) The Brazilian people are indignant with that attitude because they don't understand the reason of the NO, and because the creator of the program doesn't say anything.
5) Sympathy or not for this case... If you think so...  I think that it would be better if the creator of the program spoked and it convinced the Brazilians of the because he doesn't incorporate the Brazilian translation in his software.
6) People that only think, don't make anything...
7) A thing is right: ALL the Brazilian peoples would like to have a official translation for the Portuguese from Brazil. I think that discussion won't finish while Patchou doesn't say their reasons clearly for not including the translation in Messenger Plus!

Read the quotes in my previous post... those quotes are made by you and others. And those quotes are CLEARLY name calling and uncalled-for accusations which has got NOTHING to do with why BR is not added...

And the reasons why BR is not added as of yet, have been CLEARLY stated over and over again. But if you (plural) fail to read and understand them that's not our fault and not Patchou's fault... and is BY NO MEANS a freeguide to start accusing Patchou from things which have got absolutely nothing todo with this.

I just answer for me, not for others.
I insist: Patchou makes a great work and Messenger Plus! it is an excellent software. However, his support to the Brazilian language is almost anything.
Please, CookieRevised, could you mention (to enumerate) the "rules" that justify NOT adding the translation BR? I think that so, all the Brazilians will CLEARLY be able to analyze the reasons.

Thank´s,
Dr. Heyder
BRasil