Shoutbox

Maybe the staff should have a staff meeting over this and get it sorted quickly. And wdz people can change and just because they have a bad rep does'nt mean they cant be trusted and should be banned



Oh and i just found the rules today. So ill behave and try not to spam anymore.

PS: L. Coyote, I picked your post to reply to and to make my thought clear for general purpose for everybody to read. So I hope others read it as if it is replied to them and that you don't feel that you're the only one who I 'attack'... The next parts are to be read as a response to everybody (your post was simply usefull to be taken for the means of something to reply to)

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
Why didn't you just link to the Reputation System Guidelines in your first post, instead of the second third page of the thread? Instead of making this into Yet Another Pointless Rant thread, why not remind everyone to follow those guidelines? A reminder is more likely to reach people than a rant.

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Because something needs to be done....

The rep system is not the thing which is/should be discussed here, it is our behaviour what is/should be discussed. But again, it is/was deviated towards the rep system...

Why do you think those 'rant' threads are made? Why do you think those 'rant' threads pop up more and more often? Not because we like to rant... on the contrary...

But maybe because it is time (heck, way past that time IMO) that something drastically needs to be done. And I'm not talking about an upgrade to a new version (which will NOT make things better, an upgrade isn't going to change people's behaviour), a restriction to the rep system or whatever other thing, but about changing how we behave, as a community, towards each other, towards new people...

It is time to start thinking instead of acting... or not acting and ignoring in this case as it is the nth time that people complain and nothing is done about it afterwards (and I don't mean deleting those reps or whatever, but efforts to try and make the community act like a community again with decent and respectfull smart people instead of a bunch of smartass kids)...

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
Did anyone PM the member with the Forum Rules and gave him a pat on the back, telling not to worry about what others said? Did anyone try and explain why people gave him such comments?

Did anyone PM WDZ about the comments that broke the Guidelines, so that he removed the ones he thought were inappropriate?

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Maybe, maybe not... dunno

But that is not the issue here... The issue here is how people (regulars!!!!!!!!!!!!) behave towards such new members in the FIRST place...

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
I'm tired of people who take the easy path and complain about the forum members, instead of doing things themselves. If you care so much, take the time to talk to new members!

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excuse me?

You think complaining is easy? You think we like to complain and put our time in writing essays to make it clear that these things can't go any further?

Tbh, it is WAY easier and faster to just hit the report button and write 1 short sentence to the mods and be done with it (aka: ignoring it) than it is to put time and effort into trying to make it clear to people in public that such behaviour is as bad..sorry, worse, than a new member spamming.

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
The Reputation System doesn't need to change. People need to stop obsessing over it.

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Extremely true too

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
But even that is just pointless, IMO.

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Thinking it is pointless is _exactly_ why this forum is going downhill IMO.

It has been too long going on already (the ignoring part, and "its pointless anyway so why bother" thoughts, etc...)




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Originally posted by marc87
And wdz people can change and just because they have a bad rep does'nt mean they cant be trusted and should be banned

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True. But people will only be banned when they break the rules again. Nobody was ever banned from the first time, even second time, and even third time... The mods give people a lot of chances actually...

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Originally posted by Sunshine
I took the risk of people hating me for "slapping them on the wrist".

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Which is something I'm not going to be bother anymore with (as many might have noticed lately). I've done that in the past too long. IMHO, it is time to slam on that table, all this stupid behaviours are gone too far. I cba anymore to be "carefull".

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: L. Coyote, I picked your post to reply to and to make my thought clear for general purpose for everybody to read. So I hope others read it as if it is replied to them and that you don't feel that you're the only one who I 'attack'... The next parts are to be read as a response to everybody (your post was simply usefull to be taken for the means of something to reply to)

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Likewise, Sunshine and Cookie. (Minus the "attack" part, I don't attack, even if my post sounds angry. I'm just chatting about forum politics.)

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Because i wanted to discuss the whole behaviour and not just the neg repping.

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Oh, but you linked to the reputation page of a member! How could it not be about neg repping, if not? That's why everyone jumped in that wagon, after all.

Don't get me wrong, it really annoys me when people gang up on newbies.

Yes, this member did nothing bad. Yes, people today are negging for anything. But, if he's only broken a rule (understandable), then the more reason to stick around and learn from the community. If he wants to.

But I'm one who thinks that all these rants focusing on the reputations of new members are the reason why other members actually neg-rep new members. It's putting so much importance in it, that people automatically rep members.

That, and the mistaken idea that the rep system is there for personal reasons or for personal opinions...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Because something needs to be done....

The rep system is not the thing which is/should be discussed here, it is our behaviour what is/should be discussed. But again, it is/was deviated towards the rep system...

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I agree that something needs to be done, that it involves people and not the rep system.

However, the rep system is always being brought up in these threads. Why? And I'm not the one who does it, I just follow this trail, as an example of what people do.

Why do people bring it up? Why do they think it's the problem?

Because, like I said before, I think these threads that are supposedly not about the rep system are based on the rep system. Even you acknowledge this. It's giving it too much importance. It's linking community behavior to the reputation system. So people will never learn to discern from neither.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Yes i did pm that member, told him i understand his confusion as to where a thread should go etc and not to take notice of the negs given. I also asked him to delete his threads that were still unanswered at that point (back then just one got an answer). Those threads were gone later on, i can't see wether he did that himself or if a mod/admin did.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
I did not take the easy path at all...

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No, you didn't take the easy path. And I'm glad you're not exactly like the countless of other ranters. At least you did something AND ranted.

Some don't take the trouble.

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Originally posted by L. Coyote

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Because i wanted to discuss the whole behaviour and not just the neg repping.

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Oh, but you linked to the reputation page of a member! How could it not be about neg repping, if not? That's why everyone jumped in that wagon, after all.

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It is not about only giving reputations, it is about the regulars' behaviour as a whole, of which the neg rep giving for that guy is only a clear example of how regulars behave and threat others lately and don't care for order and don't think before doing/saying something.

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
But I'm one who thinks that all these rants focusing on the reputations of new members are the reason why other members actually neg-rep new members.

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As you said futher in your post, they are not focussed on the reps at all.

As I said somewhere earlier in this thread: these rants tend to deviate to the reputation system and totally go past the main issue, because others are focussing on it, not the 'rant' starters...

And that is also one of the issues: people gang up, and above all don't think further what the consequences might be or if it is right or wrong before doing something, etc (and I'm not talking about the new members here, for those who still might not get it)...

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
However, the rep system is always being brought up in these threads. Why? And I'm not the one who does it, I just follow this trail, as an example of what people do.

Why do people bring it up? Why do they think it's the problem?

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Because they don't see that the problem is themselfs

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
Because, like I said before, I think these threads that are supposedly not about the rep system are based on the rep system.

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Not at all. They are totally based upon the behaviour of people. Read some of the previous rants, it will make it clear. They always started because some stupid/immature/not-thinking-thru behaviour...

The abusing of rep system is only a small, but a clear, example...

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
Even you acknowledge this. It's giving it too much importance. It's linking community behavior to the reputation system. So people will never learn to discern from neither.

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Even if the rep system wasn't there, the behaviour and acting of people would still be the same. And that is the whole issue which some people don't understand...

The rep system shouldn't be discussed, it is fine as it is. It is the acting and general attitude which need to be discussed...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It is not about only giving reputations, it is about the regulars' behaviour as a whole, of which the neg rep giving for that guy is only a clear example.

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I know, I know. But I also said this:

quote:

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
However, the rep system is always being brought up in these threads. Why? And I'm not the one who does it, I just follow this trail, as an example of what people do.
[...]
Because, like I said before, I think these threads that are supposedly not about the rep system are based on the rep system. Even you acknowledge this. It's giving it too much importance. It's linking community behavior to the reputation system. So people will never learn to discern from neither.

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I actually replied to Sunshine first and then quoted you, so that part you quoted probably didn't make any sense...

What I meant to say, is that if she wanted to speak about behavior, she wasn't helping the issue by linking to a reputation page. Because... [insert those quotes above]

That's it, it's what I think of the matter.

Shit, I was afraid you would already replied... I didn't read your entire post before starting to reply. My post is now edited (while you posted your reply).... I should not have pressed 'post' before I actually finished...

@ menthix's suggestion http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=71...d=791795#pid791795

I think members with less than 10 posts (including t&t) should not be reppable, you hardly know them.
I also think that neg repped people should not be able to rep, as they  massively pos rep people and they feel compelled to return the rep and the spammer/neg repped gets a huge unjustified pos rep.

I think it's not the negative reps that harm, but the comments to the rep profile linked above.

edit:
You may think of me as an asshole. I do not mind.  I strive to be honest and write what I think, even if that costs me my positive rep or my permanence in this forum.

edit 2: this is what i meant above:
"Fecking hell.."
Negatives are okay, being aggresive in them is not.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Do the innocent new members have to suffer because of the non-innocent ones?

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No, I don't think so. There may be a bit of a trade-off, but that's the case with lots of things. I think the members with the ability to give reps just need to be careful to make sure they're fair and justified.

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Is it justified to tell them to die and make sexual assumptions in reps?

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Of course not. Reps like that will not be tolerated, and deleted ASAP.

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This guy clearly was confused as to where his thread should go and didn't want it to go unnoticed.

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Clearly confused? Umm... ok...

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Nowhere did he flame anyone, spam a porn link or existing threads nor did he advertise in any sense of the word!

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So? He still did something wrong, just not those things.

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Seriously is there no respect at all anymore? To those who think this kind of behaviour is the correct one ask yourself if you would like to be treated that way yourself.

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First they'd probably ask themselves if they would post a thread 5 times, and the answer would probably be no.

I guess what I mean by that is: the more experienced forum users often don't understand how the newbie mind works. What may be an innocent mistake can be perceived as something mischievous. Personally, I have a hard time understanding how someone can spam the forums with five duplicate threads and think it's acceptable.

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Originally posted by L. Coyote
What I meant to say, is that if she wanted to speak about behavior, she wasn't helping the issue by linking to a reputation page. Because... [insert those quotes above]

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I have put that link there exactly for the reason Cookie gave in his post. It is a startingpoint, an example on how the behaviour is.

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No, you didn't take the easy path. And I'm glad you're not exactly like the countless of other ranters. At least you did something AND ranted.

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Thank you. I don't think i'm known to rant over nothing either (if i was i'd understand it if my rant wasn't taken seriously)

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Originally posted by WDZ
Of course not.  Reps like that will not be tolerated, and deleted ASAP.

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Deleting them won't teach the one who gave the rep anything. As i said before..i'm sorry i didn't screenie the reps when i started this thread now, you'd see why i started this thread if i had. Instead i chose the hard way and used them as an example trying to make people see they are in the wrong..i prefer them realising that and deleting the rep themselves over a "cover up" (in the end it saves you work aswell, they shouldn't have been made in the first place..if the one who got the rep has read it the harm has been done already too).

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So? He still did something wrong, just not those things.

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He received flaming in return (the things i mentioned earlier).

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Originally posted by MenthiX

Suggestion to WDZ: Disable repping people with less than XX posts .

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Agree...

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Originally posted by marc87

Oh and i just found the rules today. So ill behave and try not to spam anymore.

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If I remember correctly, you were advised to read the rules when you sign up...

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Originally posted by WDZ
Some boards out there actually auto-ban people based on reputation,

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I'm just going to EBFL as an example here. He was way below the neutral line when he signed up, and now he has gone way above 20 rep...so if the auto-ban was used, then he would've been banned, along with a lot of other people.

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Originally posted by marc87
well  its alot harder posting 100 things seeing as im not a scripter i was just giving my opinion on it  >.<

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I cant script. I see myself having more than 100 posts, though it took me around 2 months...

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Originally posted by Plik
Also how about reps expireing after a certain amount of time active in the forum, as some people have been mass neg repped, then changed yet they still have some neg reps left over, because people forget the change them.

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3 months to update for all reps? This would make all the information up-to-date. And a pop-up box for this would be nice too.

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Originally posted by marc87
reps back easier

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that just makes matters worse. Look at what plus! (aka krissy) did when it got 100 posts...

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Originally posted by .OxY

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Originally posted by marc87
eople should be able to give reps back easier then having to post 100 posts because  some of the people can be a little harsh with some of negging

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So you want to give neg-backs? that's against the rules..

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not really...the rules don't directly specify NO NEG-BACKS...

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Originally posted by marc87
Maybe the staff should have a staff meeting over this and get it sorted quickly. And wdz people can change and just because they have a bad rep does'nt mean they cant be trusted and should be banned

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If the new member is a good person, then he/she would either provide correct responses, or not respond at all. He/she would also read the rules. And obviously, people have to be able to understand easily as to what you're saying (e.g., proper grammar!)

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Originally posted by Sunshine
All too often new people get responces like "search!"(with or withouth other bad word to accompany that). Why can't you search for them?

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Search for them. Then state, "Please use the search tool at the top of the page prior to posting future help threads..." and a Thank You might help too.