Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines.

Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. - Printable Version

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+----- Thread: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. (/showthread.php?tid=70427)

Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by Sunshine on 01-07-2007 at 02:52 PM

It has come to my attention that there are some incompatibilities between formatting scripts and other scripts and add-ons.

The problem lies in the fact that formatting scripts put tags infront of commands too (sentences starting with ! or /), wich causes those commands not to be executed.

So if you guys could put in somehow to ignore sentences starting with ! or / all those problems will be solved.

Thank you.

Summary
Here's a listing/advice of/on how i think things should be (in order to try and set some standards and prevent conflicts):

Scripts:
User commands should always start with "/" (use of anything else is discouraged)
Remote commands should start with "!" (again please make this the standard, don't use anything else)
To prevent troubles executing any command sentences beginning with "/" and "!" should be ignored in (message)formatting scripts.

Other add-ons:
Should/have to use "!" for their commands as a standard in order to not conflict with Messenger Plus! Live user commands (this is the only time "!" should be used for anything else than a remote command)

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by NanaFreak on 01-07-2007 at 02:55 PM

well the only problem with MC!L is the ! commands which shouldnt be used... but i / markee will add the ! support when stuff plug becomes non-beta

post below

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
NanaFreak, it's not just SP3 i'm on about here (that one just made me test it a bit further). There's other Plus! scripts that use ! for commands aswell wich are broken by formatting scripts (example: NowPlayin script with the !np command).

I just happened to test it with your script

ah yes... will do that soon and get a release out

hehe nice to see people use the script :cheesy:

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Sunshine on 01-07-2007 at 02:58 PM

NanaFreak, it's not just SP3 i'm on about here (that one just made me test it a bit further). There's other Plus! scripts that use ! for commands aswell wich are broken by formatting scripts (example: NowPlayin script with the !np command).

I just happened to test it with your script

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by warmth on 01-07-2007 at 03:06 PM

nice that you started this thread... maybe we can reach and agreement...

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Sunshine on 01-07-2007 at 03:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by warmth
nice that you started this thread... maybe we can reach and agreement...

It's for the good of all. No more incompatibilities with other add-ons and other Plus! scripts. No more looking for the needle in the haystack to find wich clashes with what. No more telling ppl to disable those scripts to get around the problem..wich will, i think, in the end make that scripter happy too (incompatibilities leads to unloved..wich leads to not used/non downloaded...bad name).

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Orgrim Doomhammer on 01-07-2007 at 03:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by NanaFreak
well the only problem with MC!L is the ! commands which shouldnt be used... but i / markee will add the ! support when stuff plug becomes non-beta

post below

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
NanaFreak, it's not just SP3 i'm on about here (that one just made me test it a bit further). There's other Plus! scripts that use ! for commands aswell wich are broken by formatting scripts (example: NowPlayin script with the !np command).

I just happened to test it with your script

ah yes... will do that soon and get a release out

hehe nice to see people use the script

In my opinion (as I suggested Markee some days ago) you should add a ||(Message.CharAt(0)==="!") where it generates the exception 4 / commands, but this won't solve definitely the problem, 'cuz there isn't only MC!L among the formatting scripts.
It would be best if there were no ! command at all, but this too would be difficult to achieve, because there are lots of script with !commands and because of some problems between MP!L and other addons who use /commands (read the Blasphemer's reply to this thread ). why instead not making a script with the same function used in formatting scripts to execute /commands? that should work 4 all the formatting scripts...

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Menthix on 01-07-2007 at 03:37 PM

Please list the scripts here that are...
- Preventing other scripts from parsing commands (like sunnie said)
- Scripts that use commands starting with something else than / (for example ! or .) while they do not have to. Note that some scripts have ! commands intentionally so your contacts can trigger them, those don't need to be reported.

If any of such scripts are in the download DB i will remove them and mail the creator that his script is removed until he fixes it.

So far these are on that list:

Preventing commands from parsing
~~http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/87-Message-Customizer!-Live/ (will be updated in a few days)~~ updated
~~http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/74-Message-Gradiator/~~ deleted
~~http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/69-Styles/~~ deleted

Using unnecessary ! commands instead of /
...

Not really related, but insecure
~~http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/44-The-Mocker/ (reported as insecure in another topic)~~ deleted

(it may take a few days before i remove anything tough... i still cannot access certain things because of a harddisk crash )

The incompatibility between StuffPlug 3 commands and some Plus! scripts that use ! commands intentionally is another story... There is nothing wrong with Plus! scripts using ! for commands when the command is supposed to be usable directly by your contacts. I think it would be best if Patchou and TB get talking together, or maybe discuss it in this topic. It should be possible to make a minor change in Plus! so SP3 can parse normal commands after Plus! without getting an error message. Or modify SP3 in a way that Plus! knows what commands SP3 use and use normal commands without errors that way.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Sunshine on 01-07-2007 at 03:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Orgrim Doomhammer
It would be best if there were no ! command at all...

If it's not ! then it be something else the command starts with, wich should then be excluded in message formatting scripts. For now i know ! and / are used for commands, that's why i ask to ignore sentences starting with those in such scripts.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by NanaFreak on 01-07-2007 at 03:55 PM

ok i know 2 scripts what arent helping this problem, they are:

http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/74-Message-Gradiator/
http://www.msgpluslive.net/scripts/view/69-Styles/

finally Message Gradiator will go

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by CookieRevised on 01-07-2007 at 04:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine

quote:
Originally posted by Orgrim Doomhammer
It would be best if there were no ! command at all...
If it's not ! then it be something else the command starts with

And that is the exact problem. A script should not be fixed to include all kinds of random things other people come up with to start their commands.

There should not be !commands, ^commands, $commands, commands ending with "!", etc. Commands should always start with "/", as Menthix said.

The scripts which use anything other than /commands without any proper need should be fixed, not the scripts which only interpret /commands.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Sunshine on 01-07-2007 at 05:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And that is the exact problem. A script should not be fixed to include all kinds of random things other people come up with to start their commands.

I believe the !command (wasn't that adviced at some point?) has become common just as the /command, that's why i asked to consider ignoring sentences starting with those (and by further reading i found the / can't be used in all cases) in message formatting scripts. We can't stop ppl making scripts with whatever fantasy command, but i think it would be wise to have standards for what is an acceptable command start and what isn't. Afterall you can't expect scripters to rule out every possible beginning...just the two common ones should do.

quote:
There should not be !commands, ^commands, $commands, commands ending with "!", etc. Commands should always start with "/", as Menthix said.

The scripts which use anything other than /commands without any proper need should be fixed, not the scripts which only interpret /commands.

I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

Let's look at it from another way/other possible solution (wich i thought of first before the ignoring certain chars in scripts):
If ! is used to start a command, is it possible to ignore any formatting before that? I fear that will be a problem as a sentence can also end with an ! I have done some testing with formatcodes and /commands (put in format tag, type command), this results in the command not beeing executed aswell. Now if all commands would start with / can formatting be ignored if put infront of that (regardless wether or not this was put in manually as i did)? If that is possible we end with the problem what if all add-ons could use /commands and two add-ons want the exact same one?

Confusing huh, but that's how i came to ask what i asked inhere.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by markee on 01-08-2007 at 03:36 AM

I agree totally with Cookie, hence why I haven't already added this support. I do not want to make it easy on people to make scripts using !commands and try to force them to use the proper /commands. I see no point in Now Playing using !commands and for the likes of mocker, if the person has plus the they just need to put "/text /command" or they need "//command" and for mocker to remove format codes an this is the way it should b done because it is the exception and is the one who is making it hard. All other scripts _don't_ need to use !commands. Furthermore, I will make a script to fix the problems with StuffPlug so there is no conflict with these formatting scripts until TB works out something better.

I will update this post later with the StuffPlug fix.

EDIT: Please find the temporary fix attached. I have made it so that you can add more exceptions as well, just add to the exceptions array.

EDIT2: fixed the file so it can be added to plus, there was a problem with the script info file

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by -dt- on 01-08-2007 at 04:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands

I use them for the remote commands, they are not parsed locally, they are only parsed when a contact sends them to you. You cant use "/" in that situation because plus parsers it and will say "invalid command".
Scripts should use ! or . or something other than / when it comes to remote commands, who in their right mind would want to do //np when its easier (and looks better) to do !np

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by ddunk on 01-08-2007 at 04:30 AM

Using "/" for remote commands is one of the silliest things I've ever heard of. Local commands should always be "/" and there isn't much of a standard for remote, but most of the time it's either "!" or ".".

Either way, using "/" for remote commands is an absurd idea and goes against what most people are used to.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by markee on 01-08-2007 at 04:39 AM

I guess that is valid, but it's not hard to remove the formatting either. I will make the exception in the next version of Message Customizer! Live, but I also would like to see other developers who are including remote commands in their script to just remove the format codes to find the command, it is just as easy for this as it is for me to adjust my script (assuming they have written their script reasonably well).

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by CookieRevised on 01-08-2007 at 06:42 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And that is the exact problem. A script should not be fixed to include all kinds of random things other people come up with to start their commands.
I believe the !command (wasn't that adviced at some point?) has become common just as the /command

It certainly never was recommended. On the contrary, it is adviced not to use "!" commands (or anything else) and use the proper "/" syntaxis.

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
(and by further reading i found the / can't be used in all cases)

It can in all cases where commands are used to trigger something in a script you're running though. There is no reason why it can't.

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
i think it would be wise to have standards for what is an acceptable command start and what isn't.

There is

A command starts with "/".

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
Afterall you can't expect scripters to rule out every possible beginning...just the two common ones should do.

There is no "two common ones" though. There is only 1...

The fact that some scripts use "!" (for local stuff) has everything todo with people not knowing how to script commands properly and not knowing that simply adding return '' to the SendMessage event is all it takes to not have that Plus! message "command is not reconized". And people copy-catting others, instead of reading the documentation first...

In other words, that is not how a 'standard' is defined, or not how it should be. But exactly what 'not following standards' means.

'not following standards' shouldn't become the 'standard'.

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

But that will not be solved by saying that "!" commands are commands too; The problem will still be there.

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
Let's look at it from another way/other possible solution (wich i thought of first before the ignoring certain chars in scripts):
If ! is used to start a command, is it possible to ignore any formatting before that? I fear that will be a problem as a sentence can also end with an ! I have done some testing with formatcodes and /commands (put in format tag, type command), this results in the command not beeing executed aswell. Now if all commands would start with / can formatting be ignored if put infront of that (regardless wether or not this was put in manually as i did)? If that is possible we end with the problem what if all add-ons could use /commands and two add-ons want the exact same one?

Nope...

Commands start with "/", nothing else, not even formatting codes, since those codes are simply text too...

quote:
Originally posted by -dt-
who in their right mind would want to do //np when its easier (and looks better) to do !np

tbh, "//" is more logic than "!" "." or whatever else, since you can say that remote commands are commands too...

However, there is something to say about "!" commands too, but only in context of remote commands. But scripts which use "!" remote commands should deal with them as if they were text, not as if they were commands (aka: take in account possible formatting and thus don't assume a remote command will always starts with "!").

quote:
Originally posted by ddunk
what most people are used to.

And how did they become use to it? --->

quote:
Originally posted by markee
(assuming they have written their script reasonably well).

exactly...

by bad written scripts...

And thus good written scripts should adapt and be fixed? I totally do not agree with this...

MHO

------------------

PS: It is not StuffPlug which is the cause of this or whatever. The problem existed long before, but was simply ignored by many people, eventhough it has been requested multiple times to them to change their commands into proper commands. I'm not into forcing standards upon people, but standards are there for a reason. Even if it might not be clear at first why they are there.

EDIT:

quote:
Originally posted by NanaFreak
COOKIE OWNS YOU ALL!!!

nope, I just have a strong opinion about things like this

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by NanaFreak on 01-08-2007 at 06:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

an easy way around this is to have your command like "/mcabout" (a Message Customizer! Live command, this command displays the about window) where the command starts with a few letters of the scripts name then what it does.

COOKIE OWNS YOU ALL!!! 8-)

RE: RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by markee on 01-08-2007 at 07:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:
Originally posted by markee
(assuming they have written their script reasonably well).
exactly...

by bad written scripts...

And so, good written scripts should adapt and be fixed? I totally do not agree with this...

What I meant by that is a well written script can quite easily be modified to accept a remote command even if it has text formatting where it is harder for poorly written scripts. It is just my opinion that these scripters should also allow for this so users whose contacts use a text formatting script that isn't going to be modified for this can also still have the remote commands able to be used (sorry for it being so long but I couldn't think of a better way of explaining it).

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Sunshine on 01-08-2007 at 01:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by markee
Furthermore, I will make a script to fix the problems with StuffPlug so there is no conflict with these formatting scripts until TB works out something better.

EDIT: Please find the temporary fix attached. I have made it so that you can add more exceptions as well, just add to the exceptions array.

"The file you tried to load does not appear to be a valid Messenger Plus! script pack"

Aslong as another add-on can't use the / for commands without Plus! intercepting it first and giving errormessages (not a valid command error...then aborts the command, wich i believe is the main problem here) i fear the only way to make things work seamlessly with eachother is to accept the fact that !commands exist as a "widely" accepted command, with adjusting message formatting scripts accordingly (wich is by far easier than have another script or add-on ignore anything before the !, wich i think is impossible tbh).

It is in my eyes a better solution than having to look for the well known needle in the haystack if scripts (and other add-ons) conflict (even tho we'll never totally be freed of that). We all know nobody ever thinks of posting a full list of scripts they use (with links to em) when there is such a problem.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by John Anderton on 01-08-2007 at 02:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ddunk
Either way, using "/" for remote commands is an absurd idea and goes against what most people are used to.

I agree with the fro one hundred percent

I thought it was pretty standard to use "!" for remote commands.

quote:
Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands

I have no freaking idea where that post is. I just copy pasted it from dt's post since i couldn't find it
Of course there is a point for musicNowPlaying having "!" commands. Remote commands can be used to allow file sharing directly and to see what your contact is hearing.

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by markee on 01-09-2007 at 12:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by John Anderton

quote:
Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands
I have no freaking idea where that post is. I just copy pasted it from dt's post since i couldn't find it
Of course there is a point for musicNowPlaying having "!" commands. Remote commands can be used to allow file sharing directly and to see what your contact is hearing.

The full sentence was as follows.

quote:
Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands and for the likes of mocker, if the person has plus the they just need to put "/text /command" or they need "//command" and for mocker to remove format codes an this is the way it should b done because it is the exception and is the one who is making it hard.

It does make a little bit of a difference when you have the whole lot. I just see no reason for it when there are alternatives that keep with the standard.
Btw it was in my first post in this thread

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by Rolando on 01-09-2007 at 12:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by markee
It does make a little bit of a difference when you have the whole lot. I just see no reason for it when there are alternatives that keep with the standard.
Btw it was in my first post in this thread

I completely agree with markee and MenthiX. Scripts that try to be different and use ! or others like ^%&* should not be allowed in the script database. They should stick to / commands.

RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by John Anderton on 01-09-2007 at 08:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by q25

quote:
Originally posted by markee
It does make a little bit of a difference when you have the whole lot. I just see no reason for it when there are alternatives that keep with the standard.
Btw it was in my first post in this thread

I completely agree with markee and MenthiX. Scripts that try to be different and use ! or others like ^%&* should not be allowed in the script database. They should stick to / commands.

Are you serious that you want users to use double slashes for remote commands?
I think you may have not got the point of the discussion here.
We (what me, markee and dt) were talking about was the fact that remote commands (commands that my contact can call from my pc) use "!" or "." instead of "/" (which would actually need to be "//" to be sent actually)
The use of double slashes ("//") is the reason why I'm saying that its dumb to use slashes for remote commands.

Bottom line is..
Use "!" or "." for remote commands and "/" for local ones

Hopefully scripters know what remote and local commands are.

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by warmth on 01-09-2007 at 05:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by markee
I agree totally with Cookie, hence why I haven't already added this support. I do not want to make it easy on people to make scripts using !commands and try to force them to use the proper /commands. I see no point in Now Playing using !commands and for the likes of mocker, if the person has plus the they just need to put "/text /command" or they need "//command" and for mocker to remove format codes an this is the way it should b done because it is the exception and is the one who is making it hard. All other scripts _don't_ need to use !commands. Furthermore, I will make a script to fix the problems with StuffPlug so there is no conflict with these formatting scripts until TB works out something better.

I will update this post later with the StuffPlug fix.

EDIT: Please find the temporary fix attached. I have made it so that you can add more exceptions as well, just add to the exceptions array.

"The file you tried to load does not appear to be a valid Messenger Plus! script pack"

markee why happen this??? I have the fix script already installed but I did it in the copy to script folder way... :-#

I tried to pack it by mayself and doesn't work neither... (N)

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by Spunky on 01-09-2007 at 05:11 PM

I've got to say that I've always used / comands for local and ! commands for remote.

I do agree that a standard method needs to be enforced and that scripts not complying should not be allowed into the database.

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by markee on 01-10-2007 at 03:35 AM

I fixed the script, there was just a problem with the script info file. Sorry about that.

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by warmth on 01-10-2007 at 04:22 AM

nice thanks! now it works OK!

RE: RE: IMPORTANT! Dear scripters, please read! by lysp on 06-03-2007 at 02:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by John Anderton
Are you serious that you want users to use double slashes for remote commands?
I think you may have not got the point of the discussion here.
We (what me, markee and dt) were talking about was the fact that remote commands (commands that my contact can call from my pc) use "!" or "." instead of "/" (which would actually need to be "//" to be sent actually)
The use of double slashes ("//") is the reason why I'm saying that its dumb to use slashes for remote commands.

Bottom line is..
Use "!" or "." for remote commands and "/" for local ones

Hopefully scripters know what remote and local commands are.

Exactly, i agree 100%.

Msn is using irc to model the internal command standard of /, and that is only used for internal/local commands. Since the introduction of script bots, etc.. the remote command has almost always been !.

That has been the standard for 10+ years (or more), so i dont see why it should be any different. Plus the // for a remote command is just plain ridiculous.

RE: HELP by Psychotic™ on 10-15-2009 at 12:52 PM

Hi,
I am a newbie here and with this script stuff. I have installed only 2 like the weather and answer machine. I have read and cannot find where you put the code at like /weatherme and /weather2you at??

I would appreciate any help on this.

Thanks and Regards,
Psychotic™

quote:
Originally posted by Sunshine
It has come to my attention that there are some incompatibilities between formatting scripts and other scripts and add-ons.

The problem lies in the fact that formatting scripts put tags infront of commands too (sentences starting with ! or /), wich causes those commands not to be executed.

So if you guys could put in somehow to ignore sentences starting with ! or / all those problems will be solved.

Thank you.

Summary
Here's a listing/advice of/on how i think things should be (in order to try and set some standards and prevent conflicts):

Scripts:
User commands should always start with "/" (use of anything else is discouraged)

Remote commands should start with "!" (again please make this the standard, don't use anything else)

To prevent troubles executing any command sentences beginning with "/" and "!" should be ignored in (message)formatting scripts.
Other add-ons:

Should/have to use "!" for their commands as a standard in order to not conflict with Messenger Plus! Live user commands (this is the only time "!" should be used for anything else than a remote command)

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by matty on 10-15-2009 at 02:03 PM

Script commands are run from the conversation window.

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by Psychotic™ on 10-15-2009 at 02:58 PM

hmmm you lost me but I will try to figure it out, web scripts i am good at but this has me clueless...lol

RE: Dear scripters, please read! Some command guidelines. by matty on 10-15-2009 at 03:20 PM

You type the commands in a conversation window. So if you are talking to someone you can type things like /weather2you and send it as a message to the person.