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An open letter to Yuna Software - Printable Version

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An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 02-18-2010 at 06:29 AM

To:       Yuna Software
From:   Adam Smith
CC:       Messenger Plus! Live Testers, Translators, and entire forum community
Date:    February 18, 2010
Re:       An open letter to Yuna Software


My name is Adam Smith, and I am a Plus! user since 2004. I was introduced to Messenger Plus! by a friend showing off its fancy abilities as far back as 2002 if memory serves me correctly. Since then I have become an active member on the community message board (http://shoutbox.menthix.net), our IRC channels (irc.msgplus.net #msgplus and #banana), and most recently last summer meeting some other community members including Cyril ĎPatchouí Paciullo at an organised event in Toronto. I have offered hundreds of hours of my own time supporting users both in our messageboard and IRC chat room. My graphic design skills are horrible, so I have refrained from making people suffer from designing any skins. I have been active with scripting on the other hand. I have created a few scripts myself and helped countless other people with coding advice.

Our community has had many successes, many triumphs. We have also had our tragedies. From Plus! babes and laptops, gaming consoles, petitions, scandals with Microsoft (anti-spyware campaign, MVP status), shocking video appearances (Patate Spears, traxor.avi), marriages, newborn children and deaths, our history spans many facets.  Many members have come and gone in the span of 8 years. There are lots of names that have built our community to what it is today. People such as Muss, Johnny_Mac, Chrono, WDZ, reisyboy, shine, EvilSeph, Time, sock, fluffy_lobster, musicalmidget and the late Imogen, just to name a few, were the founders of our community. Today, our community boasts 150 testers and translators, over 87,000 messageboard members and a userbase of more than 62 million. All these users and members canít be wrong about something so good. And now I see the community slowly falling apart.

I have been part of other communities in the past, one specifically that has faced similar demise. This community was also started by a single individual, and was run by him alone for a number of years. This particular website and community also hosted over a million page views daily, and an army of volunteers made sure everything went smoothly. I was one of these volunteers, seeing out daily operations, assisting others, and I was eventually rewarded by moving into an administrative position (but still volunteering). Eventually this community grew too large for one person to manage himself, and thus the website was sold for a large sum of money.

This new set of owners did not take kindly to its volunteers. We were left in the dark, and the former owner told us it was now out of his control. One day very suddenly, all of our administrative tools disappeared for all of the siteís volunteers. Chaos erupted. Volunteers left, the siteís content slowly degraded, and nobody knew what was happening. The new owners, realising the hell they created, sold the site again for an even larger sum of money. The new owners took a look at the mess, and consulted those who remained, and even set up telephone conferences to speak directly. I was one of the lucky few who had the opportunity to speak directly with the new owners. Unfortunately, as this new owner was a large corporate entity, they had rules to follow. I was eventually kicked from the administrative staff along with a few others as I am not an American citizen (Iím Canadian actually), and our remaining volunteer staff were further restricted in their abilities compared to before. I parted ways after being betrayed by the owners of the community I had come to know and love.

The website? RateMyProfessors.com. The original founder is John Swapceinski, later sold to a duo forming the never heard of company Baltimore Solutions, and later to MTVu, subsidy of Viacom. I was in a group of 7 people who overlooked the entire volunteer base and filtered user submitted materials for colleges and universities all across North America.

The community surrounding our favourite messaging addon seems to be heading down similar pathways. Messenger Plus! has been sold to an otherwise unknown company. The community has been asking questions. We have asked Vanessa a number of personal and business related questions in private, and no response was ever given. A female spokesperson who was supposed to be our representative for Yuna has turned into a fashion show model showing off her wares in fanfare and then disappearing behind the curtain again leaving the crowd with only a show.

I was swayed to write this letter after reading another letter from a much respected community member, Will ĎWillzí Ingles. Will has been an exceptional member to the skinning community. He currently has hosted 21 skins on Messenger Plus! Liveís skins database, with a combined download count of more than 12 million on this site alone. He has made many other skins before Plus! introduced skinning itself. I respect his decision to part ways with his unique talents. The Messenger community as a whole has been slowly degrading since the dawn of social networking. And along with it, the community of developers, supporters, fans and users. Everyone eventually moves on and Plus! is no exception. Our community will never be as strong as it used to be.

As for myself, I will not be leaving what I believe in. I believe in our community, but there has to be people in a community for it to exist. Now to be fair I did start writing this letter before Cyril has posted his most recent announcement, but I believe all my points are still valid. The community needs accountability and trust, and right now we have neither coming from Yuna. As a silent protest I have recently changed my forum avatar to the image of V from the movie ďV for VendettaĒ and I have invited others to join as well. We are all living in the Shadow Gallery right now, isolated from the bureaucrats, waiting to become revolutionists.

In closing Yuna, you must come to realise that we are a community. Without this community your new found product will fail. Gain our trust, and watch how far we will fly with you.

Sincerely,
Adam


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by matty on 02-18-2010 at 03:38 PM

Very well written and I certainly share your views.

Don't count on a response though they seem very reluctent to reply to anything and keeping themselves hidden in the shadows.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by NanoChromatic on 02-18-2010 at 05:32 PM

This give me more of a insight on what's happening exactly. A very good letter, I just hope they read it.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Lou on 02-18-2010 at 06:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
We are all living in the Shadow Gallery right now, isolated from the bureaucrats, waiting to become revolutionists.
Now people will begin to understand the avatar that we have and location (though they might not have noticed). Mine shall remain this way until beta testers and translators truly become part of the equation again and everything remains as such. Right now I'm just a sitting spectator.

And if this is just another cover, then there are plenty of other places to disappear to, but frankly, I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope that the latest things that have happened have really put an end to the problems we've had in the past month (and more).
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Kafman on 02-18-2010 at 09:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by matty
Very well written and I certainly share your views.
x2

This is what I call having a lot of guts, I certainly share your views too, I'll join having V as an avatar to support...


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Willz on 02-18-2010 at 11:29 PM

Just goes to show how deep the ties of this community goes. Something I hope that they now realize. Really well written. I only wish me voicing what I thought had as much class as this does :P.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Hank on 02-19-2010 at 01:07 AM

good letter but probably a waste of time, they wont reply


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by WDZ on 02-19-2010 at 01:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by ICQ
good letter but probably a waste of time, they wont reply
Why so negative?

It doesn't really matter if they send a reply... the important thing is that they read it and take it into consideration. Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Hank on 02-19-2010 at 01:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
quote:
Originally posted by ICQ
good letter but probably a waste of time, they wont reply
Why so negative?

It doesn't really matter if they send a reply... the important thing is that they read it and take it into consideration. Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).
why im so negative, i just dont wanna get any Hopes up that they will actually reply. , lets just sit back an wait to see what happens,  we are all entitled to our opinions on the matter. i just have a Negative one.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by John Anderton on 02-19-2010 at 01:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
quote:
Originally posted by ICQ
good letter but probably a waste of time, they wont reply
Why so negative?

It doesn't really matter if they send a reply... the important thing is that they read it and take it into consideration. Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).
And even if they don't, the letter makes it's point. Most people at this time don't expect a decent reply answering all our queries any time soon so it really doesn't matter.
If they do give a satisfactory answer to the letter, great! If they don't, most people already thought that might happen so.. oh well.. :)

* John Anderton pets Adam :happy:
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by ShawnZ on 02-19-2010 at 02:47 AM

oh man -- how am I going to live now that plus is mostly owned by an advertising company?!

oh wait, it has been for years. you act like nobody saw this coming.

besides, do you *really* need shit like coloured names and emoticon sounds? plus was originally useful for things like logging, but messenger has pretty much replaced all of its useful features with its own (other than scripting, but if you care that much, put your energy into something like livescratcher, which is actually being developed for *your* demographic.)


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Hank on 02-19-2010 at 03:12 AM

the way i look at it, nothing nobody here can do about it now, if you dont like the way Msg Plus is going now, just go over to another instant messenger Like AIM


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by CookieRevised on 02-19-2010 at 05:44 AM

Errr.... Patchou's replies explain and deal with a lot of the raised issues. So why are some people still doing as if those recent changes didn't happen????

not pointing towards MeEtc, but to some of the late replies here which were written well after the new facts

quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
....Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).

RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by vows on 02-19-2010 at 07:48 AM

But if it's takes this long and this amount of backlash for them to change their ways, shouldn't we all be a bit worried about the future?


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by CookieRevised on 02-19-2010 at 11:17 PM

Yes you should, because that is only healthy and keeps everyone' radar and involvement up. But as I said, now that things have backlashed, things have now again changed...

See the recent posts of Patchou (and Vanessa)*. The backlashing is already past time and a new future is there. So there is little point in bringing up and replying on dead cows when everything has changed again (for the better); it would just be discussing things which are no more.

*Of course, it doesn't answer all questions, but it certainly does paint a brighter future where, for now, there is no need to keep on going on something (which is now over, done and changed) like nothing has changed at all.

wow that's a strange sentence...I barely understand it myself :p


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by riahc4 on 03-03-2010 at 02:36 AM

I dont think Yuna will even read it....


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Chris4 on 03-03-2010 at 03:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
I dont think Yuna will even read it....
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Why so negative?

RE: RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by riahc4 on 03-05-2010 at 12:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Chris4
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
I dont think Yuna will even read it....
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Why so negative?

"The truth hurts"
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Menthix on 03-05-2010 at 01:02 AM

Let's take that quote back into context.

quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Why so negative?

It doesn't really matter if they send a reply... the important thing is that they read it and take it into consideration. Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).

RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by riahc4 on 03-05-2010 at 01:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Menthix
Let's take that quote back into context.
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Apparently the feedback they got was crucial in convincing them to change direction (Back to the roots... for a fresh start).

I doubt that. I imagine Patchou had some power to revoke the direction back to him and since he saw how the community responded, he used this power.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Rolando on 03-05-2010 at 03:23 AM

Then you would be mistaken. Patchou is an employee of Yuna.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Menthix on 03-05-2010 at 10:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
I doubt that.
It's exactly what I saw in multiple mails.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 03-05-2010 at 08:10 PM

Just as an update, no I have never received a response back personally. At least not yet.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Chrono on 03-05-2011 at 06:06 AM

Any updates, one year later? :P


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 03-05-2011 at 07:33 AM

So far everything is continuing down the same path, except Cyril left on his own instead of being told to leave.

Next on the menu I expect to see Plus decline in usefulness/popularity/openness to community over the next 6 to 18 months. the Plus brand will then get sold again to some other, better known company. My bets are on AOL.


RE: RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Jieff on 03-06-2011 at 02:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
So far everything is continuing down the same path, except Cyril left on his own instead of being told to leave.

Next on the menu I expect to see Plus decline in usefulness/popularity/openness to community over the next 6 to 18 months. the Plus brand will then get sold again to some other, better known company. My bets are on AOL.

It is not very cool that you are saying that everything is going down the same path.

We have been very busy creating new version of Plus!. I personally work with the community members and current administrators to keep the community alive and kicking.

Everything that you see (and will see) in the Plus! package come from community suggestions.

Plus! is promised to a bright future and I cannot do it without the community.

Let's be positive here.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Arcticwolfx on 03-06-2011 at 10:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jieff
quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
So far everything is continuing down the same path, except Cyril left on his own instead of being told to leave.

Next on the menu I expect to see Plus decline in usefulness/popularity/openness to community over the next 6 to 18 months. the Plus brand will then get sold again to some other, better known company. My bets are on AOL.

It is not very cool that you are saying that everything is going down the same path.

We have been very busy creating new version of Plus!. I personally work with the community members and current administrators to keep the community alive and kicking.

Everything that you see (and will see) in the Plus! package come from community suggestions.

Plus! is promised to a bright future and I cannot do it without the community.

Let's be positive here.

A nice reply, hope to see more interactivity between community and Yuna Software in due time. :)
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by riahc4 on 03-13-2011 at 07:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jieff
quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
So far everything is continuing down the same path, except Cyril left on his own instead of being told to leave.

Next on the menu I expect to see Plus decline in usefulness/popularity/openness to community over the next 6 to 18 months. the Plus brand will then get sold again to some other, better known company. My bets are on AOL.

It is not very cool that you are saying that everything is going down the same path.

We have been very busy creating new version of Plus!. I personally work with the community members and current administrators to keep the community alive and kicking.

Everything that you see (and will see) in the Plus! package come from community suggestions.

Plus! is promised to a bright future and I cannot do it without the community.

Let's be positive here.
Alot of things are "promised" in life but very few are archived. Members that have been around a long time are noticing the direction that MP is going.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Discrate on 03-14-2011 at 03:49 AM

quote:
I personally work with the community members and current administrators to keep the community alive and kicking.

Whom have you worked with?

It's hard to keep the community alive and kicking whilst the owners of plus utterly refuse to listen to the community.

YUNA has not listened to the community whatsoever.

quote:
Plus! is promised to a bright future and I cannot do it without the community.

Yet your employer is ignoring us.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 03-14-2011 at 05:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
Yet your employer is ignoring us.
First post: Thursday, February 18th, 2010 03:29 AM
First reply from Yuna: Sunday, March 6th, 2011 11:50 AM

They're not ignoring us, it just takes a reeeeally long time to get a reply.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by matty on 03-14-2011 at 12:47 PM

Keep in mind there are two totally different entities at work here. Kimahri Software, the development office in Montreal, is all for having the community. Jieff just doesn't have the time to sit and reply to every concern on the forum and to be honest that isn't his job. The other entity is the nameless company that owns Yuna Software. (Yuna Software is just a label and means nothing). Nathalie should be the one who openly communicates with the community as she is the liaison between them and us; not Jieff.

It certainly has become apparent that while Jieff, having many years of software development under his belt and working for big corporations, sees the benefits of having a community around a product; Yuna does not. They are a larger corporation who do things through channels; such as support in house (to give an example).

So instead of all of us jumping down the throat of Jieff (who, I feel, quite frankly is doing great with what he has to work with), we should be questioning Nathalie for answers.

Now you're going to say/think, oh matty, you're just a Jieff/Kimahri fan boy. And that couldn't be farther from the truth. Having visited the office and spent time with everyone I can appreciate his efforts in trying to keep the community alive. I have respect for what they have done in the little bit of time they have had to work on the software.

Spoiler:

Cyril was the one to continually fight for the community to be kept around, now with him out of the picture I naturally would assume this would be Jieff. Jieff see's the value in the community and I guess this is why they included, albeit shitty, a support forum on main site.

RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by ixesha on 06-28-2011 at 12:14 AM

Wow, I've been away from this forum for too long. Things fell down, went boom, eh. I must say, I'm rather flattered that you mentioned me in your letter, MeEtc. Didn't realise I was that.. well "regarded". Thanks.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 06-29-2011 at 04:40 AM

wait, what? I'm not sure who you are, if you have another account now


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by prashker on 06-29-2011 at 01:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
wait, what? I'm not sure who you are, if you have another account now
Time
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by matty on 06-29-2011 at 02:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam
quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
wait, what? I'm not sure who you are, if you have another account now
Time
Father Time is back?!?
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by ixesha on 07-07-2011 at 11:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by matty
quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam
quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
wait, what? I'm not sure who you are, if you have another account now
Time
Father Time is back?!?

Time, indeed. I'm vaguely "back", I randomly checked the forum out of nostalgia and only just noticed all the changes. Hi Matty, Sam, MeEtc.. :-)
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 02-21-2012 at 11:32 PM

Time to visit an old friend of mine, 2 years later. So what's happened over the past year? We have a new version that looks like a product from 10 years ago, and a new addon that seems to have quite a bit of work added to it.

At least the owners are finally listening to the community. Too bad, but it's too late: the community is gone.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Nathalie on 02-23-2012 at 03:38 PM

Hi MeEtc. Are you referring to the new addon for Skype?  What do you think of Messenger Plus! for Skype?  We've been getting good feedback and attention and are planning some exciting features in the next release.  Just wondering what your thoughts were on it.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by danielocdh on 07-28-2012 at 03:35 AM

I reduced the quality of your avatar, they don't accept yours because was to big (limit is 17k) mine is 12k

I haven't been active on the messenger plus community but I use messenger plus since I can remember, probably some months later after getting my first computer, perhaps a decade ago.

What you think about the new "driver"?

As soon as I noticed the installing was downloading so much without choosing the sponsor I thought something was wrong, when install finished I went to %programfiles%\Yuna Software\Messenger Plus! to remove "PlusService.exe" and I noticed some crap about "drivers", 2 exes and other strange folders with .inf files. It has been years since I don't install a fishy/spyware program on my computer, Yuna won't recover my trust ever. It is so sad to have to leave messenger plus after these so many years, but I invite to the community to do the same because I believe is the only thing left to do.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 08-10-2012 at 02:54 PM

I just re-read what I had written here 2 and a half years ago, and I see that the only prediction that hasn't happened yet is the second re-sale of Plus. The community is mostly gone, the volunteers (mostly) don't give a crap anymore, many of the volunteers have left, nobody trusts the owners, and the owners don't communicate.

Congratulations Yuna! You have succeeded in destroying the reputation of your product.

Oh, I should also mention that I did actually email the original letter to support@msgplus or whatever the email address is now back two years ago. Should be fairly obvious by now, but no, they never replied. No emails, no private messages, nothing aside from the forum posts above that were made a year later.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Spunky on 08-10-2012 at 05:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
I just re-read what I had written here 2 and a half years ago, and I see that the only prediction that hasn't happened yet is the second re-sale of Plus. The community is mostly gone, the volunteers (mostly) don't give a crap anymore, many of the volunteers have left, nobody trusts the owners, and the owners don't communicate.

Congratulations Yuna! You have succeeded in destroying the reputation of your product.


At first I refused to let myself jump to conclusions. Everybody was up in arms about the new ownership, but I decided to let it play out. Adam, I re-read this thread every time a new post is added and have been noticing it as it's happened. I have met some great people here and now they are all gone. The community is gone. No more relationships will be formed, no more marriages announced, no new Plus! kids and no more passings of people we knew or cared about.

Instead of being used as a resource, we have been used as cheap tech support. I think everyone is now prepared for the inevitable end to these forums. It can't all be blamed on Yuna, as WLM usage itself has sharply decreased. However, Plus! development would still be growing strong if it had the community support behind it.

As I have said from the start (first with the introduction of Vanessa and then Nathalie) what we have lacked is communication. No news on what's being planned and no input from users. We don't need someone spouting PR lines, we need someone with actual knowledge of both the software and what the community wants.

Due to the decline of the userbase  I have mentioned, I don't give it too long before Plus! is sold, fulfilling everything you have said. I can not say however whether this will kill Plus! entirely, or be it's rebirth



RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by John Anderton on 08-19-2012 at 08:56 PM

I logged in today because I didn't have mIRC on my new machine and wanted to get onto IRC. Surprised to see the site still here.. I think that resonates with what you folk are saying :)


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by Hanki on 08-20-2012 at 02:02 AM

AFAICT not many people use Messenger Plus anymore anyway when more an more people use social Media to interact with there friends.


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by matty on 08-20-2012 at 11:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Hanki
AFAICT not many people use Messenger Plus anymore anyway when more an more people use social Media to interact with there friends.
This is what I have been saying for a long time now. Cyril sold at the best possible time!
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by riahc4 on 11-11-2012 at 10:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by matty
quote:
Originally posted by Hanki
AFAICT not many people use Messenger Plus anymore anyway when more an more people use social Media to interact with there friends.
This is what I have been saying for a long time now. Cyril sold at the best possible time!
And now Messenger! Live is being literally killed off as a product as well....
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by vincerooney on 02-10-2013 at 09:23 PM


Very sad times.

I've used MsgPlus for 8 odd years. I lurked in the forum for so many years and sometimes posted asking for help.

I stopped using MsgPlus in 2010 it must have been before this take over. Only reason was due to less use of MSN messenger due to the increase of social media. But still I always enjoyed this forum, i enjoyed the characters on here, the collection of good people.

Seems a dreadful shame another independent product, a fine community has been butchered by a new company which doesnt even seem interested in talking with its users


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by MeEtc on 02-11-2013 at 12:13 AM

Wow, its really been almost 3 years since I posted this? Feels like a lot longer. Hey Yuna, you you have any download, install and usage statistics? Patchou used to post these quite frequently, I'd be interested in comparing how well your so-called product is failing.

Patchou has managed to support himself and his project without forced ad-ware for 8 years prior, and now you've removed that freedom.

For what it's worth, I still use Plus! for WLM version 4.83, the last version credited as made by Patchou. I have never downloaded or installed your software nor do I have any intention for the future. This [Image: mptester.gif] tag that I have means nothing. There's been brief testing periods in September 2011 and September 2012 for Plus!-WLM and only one beta period in March 2012 for Plus!-Skype. Your UI continues to be crap, the community is dead, and the number of one-off users asking for help has also severely dwindled.

Your parent company's business is advertising, marketing and online publicity

quote:
Originally posted by http://www.msgplus.net/About-Us
Messenger Plus! became a market.com brand in July, 2011. Market.com brings together the best in ecommerce, epayments and emarketing solutions, providing all the needed services for a successful ebusiness. For more information, visit www.market.com
(mirror)

The Canadian office is conveniently located in the same office Patchou originally helped you set up. We all know there is an office in Isreal, as has been mentioned before, and there is conveniently an address for Israel on market.com (Oh and go back to school, the street name is spelt wrong). A quick search of that address brings up another company, ClickTale, based around online marketing and analytics. It looks like a really fancy building too. Most of the addresses are also shared by a company called XT-Commerce, an online payments merchant. And hey, whats that in the page footer? Exhibit A, B, C, D, and finally E.

So what's all this mean?I have a striking suspicion that you're using Messenger Plus and its ad-ware/spyware to harvest data from the people using it to support more and more advertisers, or otherwise selling the data to 3rd parties. Let's take a look:

quote:
Originally posted by http://www.market.com/privacy-policy
Every time you visit and use the Site we may record certain information such as your interaction with the Site, the pages read, movement from page to page, your web request, Internet Protocol address, browser information and application numbers, referring page, cookies, geographical location, date and time, etc.

However, if you wish to take advantage of special services that we may offer from time to time, you may need to provide certain information and this statement (as may be amended from time to time) shall apply as well as the terms of use and privacy guidelines specific to such services, where available.

When you sign up, fill out a form, comment, send us an e-mail or ask us to respond to you by email, or when you communicate with us in any other way ("Communication"), we retain your e-mail address if provided and the information that you have included in the respective Communication as well as our responses to such Communication. We may associate such information with information received from other channels such as your Site usage information.

So yes, you do collect information from anyone visiting your site, and you keep track of what each user does via their email address (when provided). So what do you do exactly with this data you're collecting?
quote:
HOW WE USE THE INFORMATION

We may use the information collected to optimize performance, improve usability, provide additional or customized offerings, track status indicator, make sure things are working properly, enhance the experience on the Site and for use in aggregate for commercial purposes such as marketing, promotions etc.

We may share information internally as well with third parties, such as trusted suppliers, business partners, advertisers and search engines. However, unless specifically indicated in this document, such information is collected and shared without any association to your personally identifying information so that you remain anonymous.

So yes, you most definitely are collecting and sharing your data for purposes of more advertising. you are in the business of doing business. Your sole purpose is to basically spy on the general population, and sell whatever information you can siphon from us at a profit to you. Is it theft? Nope, because taking our information is our payment to you to use Plus. And that, IMO, is outright scum.

Oh, and I took a screenshot of all your webpages instead of providing links to them so none of your SEO crap gets here.
RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by traxor on 02-11-2013 at 08:48 PM

Itís a pity, but youíre not going to change anything. Yuna will never take advice because they donít respect our opinions, despite many of us being respected developers, designers and so on and so forth. This forum was a huge part of my life and itís got me to where I am today and Iím thankful for that, but this is not the forum you or I signed up to so the best thing we could do is stop using it and keep in touch with people we know in other ways.

I guarantee you that this server will be shut off soon. Without explanation itíll disappear and the hundreds of thousands of collective hours weíve spent on here will all be gone.


RE: A way to get a copy of the forums? by crank on 02-20-2013 at 10:55 AM

this place has changed, man.

(what a time for me to randomly check msgplus.net)


RE: An open letter to Yuna Software by YottabyteWizard on 04-09-2013 at 07:05 AM

Awesome letter MeEtc, share the opinion too.

Incredible even a rep from Yuna couldn't reply to your letter and just spammed the topic.