Shoutbox

I became verry angry when i read this on the site of "TheBlasphemer"

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Ok, the title may sound stupid, as I'm writing this on my own,
but I'm writing this on behalf of all MSN Programmers: me, Patchou, Ecko, etc.

I really get sick of people thinking that what we do is as easy as drag-and-drop,
people telling us to get a real job, and so on.
I got lots of that kind of remarks when I was thinking about making some extra's to StuffPlug-NG which you would have to pay for, Patchou has been getting them since a long time, and Ecko since his sponsorware.

The worst thing I heard was, highly summarized, "get a job".
I think this is ridiculous, I like working on StuffPlug-NG, and I'm pretty sure both Patchou and Ecko like coding their add-ons,
We spend a lot of time coding these things, and if we would have a job, we wouldn't be able to spend a lot of time on it anymore. not only will we dislike that, you would also have never gotten either Plus!, Stuffplug, or MessengerDiscovery...
However, we, just like any other person, need money to get along... not only money for hosting, but money for food, shelter, and a computer to code on.
I myself see StuffPlug-NG as my job, since I get a fair ammount of money from the google ads. Plus! is Patchou's fulltime job, and for as far as I know Ecko considers MD his job too, and their method to get money was a sponsor program.
If you want to spend a lot of time on a program without getting a dime, then go ahead, but don't complain to us about the way we do it....

Another often heard complaint about sponsorware, which I am not affected by, but it still hurts me to see such people walk around on this globe, is that the optional thing is bullshit, since the opt-in and opt-out screens are designed to trick the user.
I know that Patchou puts a lot of effort into making the screen look as good as possible, but he can't help it he has to include a license for it :/
And even IF the screens where designed to "trick" users, would you rather have it install the sponsor anyway? and stop functioning the moment you remove the spyware?
You people tend to forget that there are a LOT of people out there that do that too,
but somehow they don't tend to get hatemail like this, and often don't even give you the possibility to do so.

Going on with that, I think you should be gratefull that we (Effekt, Patchou, me) are offering you a way to give feedback,
and the way people like this completely abuse this and ruin our motivation just makes me sick.

I'm terribly sorry the forum's are not yet done, since if you wanted to defend yourself I want to give you a chance. but you can reach me on both mess.be and the messenger plus! forums.

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First of all, if people say get a real job, the don't deserve the programs that you people make (Effekt, Patchou, TheBlasphemer) I want you to know Blasphemer that i love your program and that of Patchou. I'm not glad with all the sponsor things but i kinder have sponsering than paying. And Blasphemer i wanna thank you for sharing/making your beautiful program i mean  it, 'I'm not ass kissing now, but i just want you all te know that there are people that appreciate what you doing..I will stop now and sorry for my bad English

Yeah as I making A X19 (possibly with a sponsor) I think I should talk about this. People who are telling people to get lives really need to get a life themselves. It's a sponsor big deal you can uninstall it you don't even have to install it in the first place. I could rant longer but i'll end it here.

There have been several people offending certain programmers, such as today at the messenger discovery support forum, here was my reply:

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Originally posted by my big ass reply ...

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Originally posted by Liam
if you work 10 hours a day on MessengerDiscovery, i want proof.
I very much doubt that happens, thats 70 hours a week, means you have no life other than coding Messenger Discovery. And if you really are spending 70 hours a week coding Messenger Discovery, surely you would have finished coding Version 3 in complete by now.

Sponsor is just a sell out's idea, get yourself some decent hosting at a fair price instead of going for ripoff eckohost.
http://www.nelhost.com
http://www.emaxhosting.com

and domain names? $6.99 USD (per annum), you'd have to be drinking turps and sleeping outside a shop window to not afford a domain name

in my opinion, a crappy little msn addon is not going to enrich and fulfill your life. Go and get a job working with an IT firm, go and get a degree, work on this in your spare time.
You've totally taken the ethics out of writing freeware applications, bundled with spyware, your application is now considered spyware.

May i remind you... developing such addons is supposed to be for fun, not to gain any profit or any crap like that. Youre basing a community on greed and untrust, the very people you are exploiting by adding such spyware to their systems, you are doing this for.

Noone ever spywared their addons they created with the msnapi, you're just copying patchou on the back of your success.
Your success wont last long, it never will... look at all the previous sucessful msn addons.
Warrior, Arcane Light Messenger Tools, Msn Masta v3, Grimbo

The only one that has gone the distance is plus, but look what thats become.


Agreed its fair you can choose to install it whether you want or not. But

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Not reading the Terms and Conditions is your own fault; the blame should not be shifted back to us for installing something they didn't want/didn't expect. Well it's your own fault you didn't read

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How many users are going to install this that dont have a clue about what that means. Quite a lot, the average joe will visit mess.be download this program and then come here for the validation key. He will install the sponsor, and then wonder why after 30 days his machine takes 10 minutes to boot and as soon as he boots he gets advertisements all over the place. His browsing habits are monitored by software and he cannot see any webpage because of the sheer amount of toolbars that have been installed.

I know thats a slight exageration but i hope you understand my point.

I hope MSN come down on your ass for making money out of their service.

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I'm sure that ecko_complex does work 10 hours a day on Messenger Discovery, he's a dedicated programmer that wants a great and widely used Extension for MSN Messenger, the only real proof is the outcome of the program that thousands of people use. Whats so bad about not having a life other than coding, if thats really what he enjoys doing, then just leave him to it, in the end, he's doing this for our benefit and his, he likes doing it, it would take longer than 70 hours to code an extension, there are many features that are simply too complex to only spend a little amount of time, even after these features are complete, they need fine tuning and to be placed into the GUI so it still looks good. Then you have the beta testers finding bugs, and you have to fix that, there is constant bug fixing and tuning to versions, he's not only coding 3 afaik.

I don't get why the sponsor is a 'sell outs' idea, he just needs an income, the hosting I got is probably relevant for the bandwith and space used up by the forum and messenger discover, and not forgetting where iSkin will be hosted...

He probably can't get a cheap domain or something, or the people who are hosting him are ripping him off somehow with a monthly cost thing, but whats this really got to do with anything. Its not relevant at all to what you're talking about.

This is only your opinion, its not really a 'crappy little msn addon', its quite a lot of code, have you looked at the source, I'd be bewildered if you could even understand a tenth of the stuff thats in the source, heck, I don't know about it at all, I'm not a good programmer, but I do know how long it takes to make a decent extension, and it would enrich your life, in the end, you get dedicated to making something thats unique and what you made, I'd rather do something on my own that get a job, if you get a job, something that you make would probably be bought by the company and put as their own, rather than something that was made, this is what he's doing... Why does he need a degree, who said anything about degree's here, he's doing just fine where he is, I'm sure lots of people have noticed him, and I'm sure that if he showed somebody his work, he could easily get a job without a degree, not many people need degrees, my uncle had flying colours in computing, went to a company, they didn't want him at all, why... because he had no experience, this is definitely what ecko_complex has got, he's been doing this for years quite apparently, and he's brilliant at it.

I don't get why something being freeware is defined by what it has bundled in it, what is bundled are a series of pieces of adware, plus... its optional, so if you install its your own fault, not the creators of the software, they should've read through everything.

Since when has creating software for hours on end supposed to be fun, what he's doing is fun for the people who use it, he's not doing it for himself, if anything, he's doing it for the users of Messenger Discovery, its a thriving business, and you have to have a bit of an income don't you... surely? I'd like to see you do what he's doing, you probably couldn't handle it. How is he basing his community on greed and untrust, the sponsor is there for a reason, INCOME, he needs money to keep it going, if he didn't, people would be sick of messenger discovery, he wants it to keep going.

I think that you are wrong about the whole 'no-one has ever spywared...', yes they have, loads of people do it probably, maybe he's copying patchou, why... Because patchou made a good choice in putting the optional sponsor program in his installer. His success has already lasted a long time, the reason is because of the support that he will constantly have, most users of messenger plus! will support messenger discovery, regardless if its not at all affiliated, we will always support other programs that are in similar situations also. Why are you comparing it to other people who's extensions haven't lasted long, thats just the past, you can't predict what is going to happen to an extension which you quite obviously don't have much knowledge about, whatsoever.

I don't even know why you have bought messenger plus! into this, its a great extension, thats all I'm saying, as this has gone off-topic at this part.

Many users will install it and won't have a clue, surely, if they don't understand they should read it, rather than clicking through, its just plain naive if you don't read what installers say, a lot of programs have hidden stuff throughout, and if anything happens really bad, the person who it has happened to may not be entitled to anything... Why? Because they didn't read and were naive. After 30 days, I'm sure they would have noticed and got rid of the adware somehow, there is always support, why was this thread made, to support those who may have accidentally installed the Messenger Discovery Optional Sponsor...

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personally i think they all do a good job, i cant see why people complaining about

this is retarded why would somebody criticize people for making something that is free and make's life ... (well... instant messaging)..  easier?!? ... blah... that's crazy. stupid haters...

*walks away muttering and kicking self "must write essay.. must go back to writing essay"*...



--- by the way, major props to all plugin and addon developers... luv ya and respect u all...  dont give these stupid jerks any attention cuz they dont deserve it, just concentrate on all those ppl who luv u'r work!!!

Some people are so small minded they dont understand what it takes to make a program like plus, MD or SPNG.
These people seam to consider it a drag drop fiddle with colors here and there and there an amazing add on for messenger.

If some one told linus torvold to get a job linux woulnt exist. There are
thousands of paid programers out there, lots are no where near as skilled as Patchou TB or ecko.
Any of them could go out and get a good well paid job making some average software for your average joe to spend lots of money on to make his life that easier.
Why dont they?
Because they love doing what they do, they love making a program to advance the features of msn messenger, to make our messenging lives easyer. They dedicate all there spare time to coding and supporting there software. But they are not robots they need to be kept alive, and in this world that means money.
The sheer fact the sponsor is optional we should be glad of.

</rant>

i'd like to see those idiouts try and make something as good as MD, plus! or stuffplug, they wouldnt know where to start

The problem is that average people don't even know how to program. They must think you put a button here, and a command there, and it's done.

Others think that because they know some JavaScript a programmer's job is easy.

Others simply have a superiority complex.

The thing is not just about how good a programmer's program is, but how good is the programmer as a person. And I don't see where Patchou, TheBlasphemer or ecko_complex are greedy, mean, or arrogant. In fact, they visit their forums, they host their programs in good hosts, they choose not to take job offers/opportunities, they build communities, etc.

So why are they flamed? Because they don't have Money Trees?

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Originally posted by Lee Jeffery

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Originally posted by Leo
The problem is that average people don't even know how to program. They must think you put a button here, and a command there, and it's done.

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isnt that called VB

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My point was that some people, without any knowledge of anything think that "you put a button here, and a command there, and it's done". It could be any language. Yes, we know VB does that, actually. But I was talking about non-programmers.

i think this need to be said and well done TB, but _when_ () i code something that will be right up there with SPNG and other great plugins i will always let useless comments made by randoms slide over my back.

it's really pathetic, SPNG would have taken along time, and its progress form the first version of StuffPlug is actually quite a long way. MessengerDiscovery with the winsock hooking wouldnt have been easy, and Plus, well there's really no place to start.

all 3 of you'se are great coders and also somewhat hope you do get a job, as a programmer in either your own businesses or something, dont want all this talent going to waste do we?

leave the vb noobs make their comments,

code:

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Command1_Click()
Remove Nudge Timer 'omg i coded this all by myself i is == leet
End Sub

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if they think that that is real code they are gonna be in for a shock when someone introduces them to a _real_ language like C++ or Java.

im done, whos next?