Shoutbox

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Originally posted by vincerooney
3) i hate the orange color...

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that is changable you know...

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Originally posted by vincerooney
Whilst I feel your anger cookie i don't think illegal downloads of betas really push back testing.
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It doesn't slow down development whatsoever though.
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no it doesn't hold back the real release date.
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the development of the program i feel has no bearing on some people getting hold of the beta early.

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Yes they certainly do!!

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As explained several times on various messenger related sites:

Because people use illegal beta's which were not meant to be used for the public, many things can and will happen:

- The company must release a version sooner then it was intended because many times beta's contain specific bugs which could be very harmfull for the average user who doesn't know what he/she is doing or who isn't aware of such bugs (because they are not part of the beta-testing team who knows about these things). Because of the early release other bugs hadn't the change of being solved. In the end people will end up with an incomplete not bug-free version.

Complaining starts, bugs are found (which wouldn't be there if the release was as scheduled), the good image of the developper is harmed, etc... etc...

- Those who think they are doing something good if they file a bug report actually slow down the bug testing. This is because the company is overwelmed with inproper bug reports or even reports about stuff which aren't bugs at all (more than half of the bug-reports aren't actually bugs!). And/or because the company needs to put extra people in charge of reading all those reports, people which otherwise would be developping or fixing the proper bugs.

- Those people who use illegal beta's and patches to make them work, harm the proper development of software, especially if this software depends on servers (as msn messenger does). In case of this new WLM, those illegal downgraders make that the beta-servers are overwelmed with stuff which they aren't designed for yet. This means server downtime or overload, thus stopping the official beta-testers from connecting to those servers to test.
Also, the protocol-testers have a hard time in actually determining if something is a bug or whatever in the new protocol, or if something is wrong because somebody is using the old protocol with such a protocol downgrader.

- You are harming the good-will of the company to release anything for the public. More leaking means that the company will be less and less happy with handing out beta-invites. In other words, you are making it harder and harder for others to join the official beta team. In other words, you're seriously being extremely selfish.

- etc... etc...


(and all that goes for EVERY company, not only MS)

PS: Leaking a closed private beta is even worse than using one!!!

I stand corrected cookierevised.

But surely microsoft could fight some of the above reasons. By creating a 'report bug' link and emailing it to beta testers only. I know what you're thinking 'but people would exchange it like they did the messenger' but surely not in such high numbers?

As for damaging the reputation of the company. Well thats  the peoples fault for downloading an illegal beta? People will always download MSN (WLM) regardless. i wouldnt speed things up if i were microsoft but just continue issuing the statement 'well you shouldn't be downloading it...'

most people wouldnt be ignorant enough to try and whine about the product then they know they got it illegally.

anyway thanks for your views. very interesting.

I haven't received any emails from Microsoft about the WLM beta, I have BETA tested for MSN7 and 7.5 though.

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Originally posted by nvez
I haven't received any emails from Microsoft about the WLM beta, I have BETA tested for MSN7 and 7.5 though.

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Maybe because those invites might not have been mailed yet?

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: Leaking a closed private beta is even worse than using one!!!

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Actually there should be a way to figure out who leaked the beta. I have a few ideas and i seriously want to contact the messenger branch of MS. Cookie might you have some ideas ??
And any person found leaking a beta should be not only scrapped from the program but also never allowed into something like this as far as possible A fine and stuff would be great Tho not possible

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Originally posted by John Anderton

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: Leaking a closed private beta is even worse than using one!!!

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Actually there should be a way to figure out who leaked the beta. I have a few ideas and i seriously want to contact the messenger branch of MS. Cookie might you have some ideas ??
And any person found leaking a beta should be not only scrapped from the program but also never allowed into something like this as far as possible A fine and stuff would be great Tho not possible

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There are pluses for leaking things. NO, I'm not saying it's fine to leak things. I'm a firm stander on not leaking things, except information (News purposes only). The way I see it, is that if a product is leaked and people hack it to use it, it means that people want it. Thus meaning that people WANT to use the betas. The more people using the betas, the more bugs can be found. Cookie is right though, half the crap reported are not bugs at all but local computer/connection problems.

When the wonderfull little prompt comes up "MSN Messenger has encountered a error and needs to close", and you send a bug report, it is likely that if a huge number of people also report and have that bug it will be fixed. That is the only plus I see in it.

Oh yeah, not to mention that the first leak was Microsoft's fault for posting it on the live website.

Like Jonathan said, "If your product is getting leaked, then it's doing good" .

Now, back to your original post about stopping leaking. I thought of this a while back when I was discussing the new CNI with a few other people. Why not tag each download by a beta tester? As to say, you have to be logged in and each download will be tagged? That way when someone leaks it, it will be easy to track the leaker and get them out of the beta. There is always going to be leaks, always. There are going to be people who give in to there friends and send them the beta. It's just a matter of getting those who will leak the product out of the beta.

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Originally posted by vincerooney
But anyway what im asking is then the actual release date of the proper beta comes about. as in the one published to the testers. once that happens i know it'll be about 2 months or so until the official release date.

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No one knows when the Beta program will begin.

It might be longer than two months of beta testing before it is officially released to the public. Version 7.0 was in Beta from about October 'til April (5 or 6 months). And as 8.0 is a major release i don't expect a 2 months Beta. 7.5 was in Beta for 1 month, and that didn't add as many new features as 8.0 will include.

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Originally posted by John Anderton
Actually there should be a way to figure out who leaked the beta. a beta should be not only scrapped from the program but also never allowed into something like this as far as possible A fine and stuff would be great Tho not possible

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Yes, i'm sure there could be ways of tracking down who leaked the beta. Except the beta of WLM (Windows Live Messenger) was NOT leaked. It is being officially hosted by Microsoft on it website.

But yes i do agree with you, for betas that have been leaked, there should be a penalty for leaking. At least one tester of MSN Messenger 7.0 who leaked it was found and was removed from the Beta.

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Originally posted by thc2010
did anyone register to be a tester for  Live Connect?
Im wondering if thats why we all got the email

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Beta tester for Live Connect? what do you mean?

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Originally posted by BeerBro
do you know if Microsoft actually contact you for info during the beta test?.. like through phone or mail?...

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Microsoft will be in contact with those in the Managed Beta via the Private Beta Newsgroups, Email and maybe even via the Microsoft Connect Website. If you are on the Closed Beta, Microsoft will be in contact with you via public Newsgroups, and possibly e-mail. For more information about the difference between the Managed and Closed Beta's see this blog

Is anyone else having trouble using Audio with The new build?? i cant seem to do anything audio apart from voice clips, help please

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Originally posted by DevilFX
Is anyone else having trouble using Audio with The new build?? i cant seem to do anything audio apart from voice clips, help please

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Are you maybe using this build with the hack. I haven't tried using the WLM 8 builds yet, so i cannot confirm this error. It might be posssible that the downgrader is not allowing the audio to work.