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Attaching timezone attributes to my chat list - A Suggestion
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CookieRevised
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RE: Attaching timezone attributes to my chat list - A Suggestion
The manual user input required (thus without using a reliable datasource) is input which most people even don't know about or input which needs to be looked up on external datasources anyways.

It is not size of the user input which is a problem, it is the constant changing (from year to year) and variations in the required input which is the problem.

If one searches the forum for deadlines of releases of software where the deadline is set at x hour GMT+-y, you'll see that extremely many people (even the ones who initially set the deadline) will get these variables wrong and mix things up (especially when DST is involved).

About external datasources, such sources are extremely reliable and will not change for many many years. In fact the lifespan of such sourcers is many multiples higher than the lifespan of such plugins.
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01-08-2006 04:04 AM
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grinch
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O.P. RE: Attaching timezone attributes to my chat list - A Suggestion
There are source code examples on the internet that can easily calculate dates and times for different locations and they take into consideration Daylight Savings Time in those locations... here is one such example in VB:

http://vbnet.mvps.org/index.html?code/locale/gettimezonebias.htm

This code example along with others (on the same site) show that it isn't that difficult to accomplish what we've been discussing here. I also don't think that it's that difficult for someone to enter a few pieces of relevant time information. I didn't understand the analogy about software deadlines and software writers unless you were trying to imply that if someone that writes software can screw up a date then there is no hope for someone to get it right if they don't write software... Software writers are not exempt from screw ups... thats why there are bugs...

This has been "fun"... You are probably right... a suggestion like this probably isn't going to find itself in the codebase of MsgPlus... it's not as exciting as changing the color of the font for a contact or being able to configure Personalized Status... I would find it useful only because many people in my contact list are in different parts of the world... maybe I'll just write a plugin for myself... it might be a fun excersize...



Life would be much easier if I had the source code.
01-08-2006 05:13 AM
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CookieRevised
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RE: Attaching timezone attributes to my chat list - A Suggestion
The APIs used in question aren't that accurate and DST is specified year by year and can change year by year (and have changed in the past). There is no fixed rule to state when DST is applied and when not (despite that those APIs use such makeshift rules). It is revised and applied year after year by profound research institues and announced when needed. Said this, usually you can indeed "predict" (and thus that is all what these API's actually do) when it will be applied where, but you will never be certain unless you look this up on those websites or other sources instead of relying on questionable "predicting" APIs.

Also, this still does not rule out the specific location input that you need from the user. As DST is not applied everywhere the same in the same timezone! And that is not something which those APIs take into account. The country location is very mandatory in reference to DST, thus not only the GMT offset is important.

Thus, this makes the circle full again and you'll come back to what I suggested before: Since you need the specific country to make this calculation accurate, you might as well dish everything from those "guessing" APIs and strait away look up country specific information on a trusted, always updated and well known online source.

This rules out the very common user input mistakes regarding GMT offsets, DSTs, etc. If the user wants to get it right he needs to look these things up on those very same sites for starters anyways. So why not skip all the possible error making and only ask for the country and look things up yourself instead of relying on the user to do it.

quote:
Originally posted by grinch
I also don't think that it's that difficult for someone to enter a few pieces of relevant time information. I didn't understand the analogy about software deadlines and software writers
I'm not talking about those who program the plugin but about those who use the plugin and thus need to fill out the variables.

As I said, when you search the forums you'll notice that such small and trivial information is in fact a very big issue to make it correct! And isn't so trivial anymore to get it right for the average person as you might think.

The ananlogy was exactly to show that even people who are extremely well programmers and thus should know about the ins and outs of this, even get it wrong sometimes and forget about or mix up different DST settings around the world when they announce a product of theirs to be released.

This post was edited on 01-08-2006 at 05:47 AM by CookieRevised.
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01-08-2006 05:39 AM
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