[ON TOPIC]
To try to answer the original question (thread's topic):
@Segosa
For starters, reading your description I would say, like everybody else, you're an atheist (
firm belief that there is no God).
As for being an agnostic (
belief that since God's existence can't be proved, religion is irrelevant to life), that depends on the definition of 'agnostic'.
Taken in general an agnostic still believes in a something! The only difference with a religious person is that an agnostic also says that you can not proof a God exists or not, whereas a religious person accepts that a God exists and sees proof in every day life.
So, imho, no you're not an agnostic.
As for being irreligious (
lack of religion and/or hostility to religion, that realy depends on the definition as irreligious can include important differences depending on context.
In one context, an irreligious person doesn't nessecairly believe that there is nothing, they can still believe in
something.
In another context, an irreligious person can be hostile towards religion (I hope you aren't
). This means you don't respect other people's religion and actually get hostile when one says he is Chatolic for example.
So, imho, I think you're an atheist...
quote:
Originally posted by segosa
NOTE: I'm not trying to start a stupid religion debate.
lol, I believe you. However, it was very predictable that it would end in one 
just like every browser question ends in a browser-war...
[/ON TOPIC]
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[OFF TOPIC]
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Zombies, werewolves, vampires, ...etc were all thought up in later years, when people started to get concious about fiction
As long as humans existed, humans always had a notion of fiction. This was so in the early humans, and this was certainly so 2000 years ago... eg: Greek and Roman myths, legends, sagas, etc (way before Jesus' time)... Or even take a look at the written history of the Egyptian culture, Maya culture, etc...
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Not taking the bible seriously is your opininion... I believe the Bible is true, and others with me. Alot of people don't. It's just a matter of opinion
The people argumenting with you here DO take the bible seriously, however they don't take they bible
literally like you do. There is a major difference between taking something seriously and literally.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Fossils are not prove of evolution, you can not say that fossil evolved into another species... You weren't there, you don't know if it had any children...
This shows exactly how much you know (not saying this disrespectfull; just saying you still need to learn a hell of a lot and need to be very carefull in basing all your believes on something which you didn't learned yet).
Dispite everything, why don't you try to learn about how science works and how they can know why that fosil is an ancestor of that other fosil.
Maybe just learn about how a father-test works, how cloning works, etc. All that can be prooven and seen(!) with your own eyes if you wish, and all are based upon the very same scientific theory.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Monkeys and humans are totally different species and cannot bread which eachother (that would be another argument against evolution, how would the new evoluted specie breed?)
This is certainly not an argument against evolution at all, even in the lightest sense.
Also 1) monkies and humans share 99% of the same DNA, gens, etc.
2) Ever heared of cross-specie breeding? It happens in nature (even without interference of humans), it even is seen and documented by humans.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Why didn't dinosaurs live with humans? what facts? The geological column? Carbon dating? both proven to be wrong
The geological column is not the same at every point, At some places in the world the're missing some layers, meaning the era wouldn't have existed at that place...
Carbon dating is even more wrong, it is only accurate for less than 14.000 years, and if the earth's CO2 levels remained constant troughout that time. Tests showed out that a 25 year old carcass whas misdated at few thousand years. The skin of a mamoth was dated a few thousand years older/younger than it's bones...
It's all described in the videos (especialy Seminar 4)
If you have the time, please do...
Please, everything you say here is seriously misquoted, put out of context and what not.
Such stuff is gladly used by those trying to explain the creation theory while conveniently forgetting that mistakes in dating things are rare. Forgetting that carbon dating is only one of the many methods used. Forgetting that carbon dating has come a waaaaaaaaaay long way since then.
Also you speak of errors of a few thousand years. So what? The earth is billions of years old. Because I can't pinpoint to the exact second when I ate french fries for the last time, doesn't mean I can't pinpoint to the year when I was born... Some dating methods are indeed not accurate to the nearest 100 years, but that doesn't mean they aren't accurate to the nearest thousand years.
Your arguments sound exactly like those arguments used by so many conspiracy believers and what not.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Because almost everything has a creator... becuase you don't know him doesn't mean he doesn't exist...
almost everything? So there are things which don't have a creator? Like the universe?
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Only the lower ribs grow back in total, the other bones only 'regenerate'. So if you lost your lower rib, it regrows, if you lose a toe, it's gone.
Why don't the second lowest ribs grow back?
(....)
I didn't say it was proof for religion. I only state that it's interresting only the lowest ribs grow back, the one God created Eve from, so it says in the Bible
Don't turn this around. You say because it is written in the bible that God created Eve from Adam's rib, that this is why ribs grow back...
It is the other way around. Since ribs grow back, the writter of genesis used that as a metaphore to explain something.
And that is the big difference between people taking the whole bible literally and people taking the bible for what it is: a historical document trying to give sense to what people don't understand or didn't understand yet at that time (which is in that context not any different than other texts and books talking about human moral, behaviour, expectations, good and evil, etc). Yes the bible does contain historical facts too, but those facts are not things like God created the universe, those are things like there was a man called Jesus and he was loved by many and had many followers.
Anyways, a rib grows back because that is how evolution works. aka: how we, humans (and animals for that matter), are build.
And that is, btw, prooven science!
It has todo with the gens. Scientists can input/manipulate certain gens so that other limbs do grow back. This is btw even used today in medical science to grow skin, liver, etc to be used as transplantation material in burn wounds for example.
This has absolutely nothing todo with religion or God since it is prooven science.
And fyi, even 2000 years ago people already knew about some medical stuff and some stuff about how the human body worked.
To put it in an extremely short way: the bible or any religion texts are written based upon what people saw and experienced and they used a lot of analogies, and mostly metaphores to explain stuff like moral, good behaviour and what not.
Compare it to what parents do today (and even also already did 2000 years ago): they tell bedtime stories and fairytales to their children. In the first place to entertain them, but in the second place (and willing or not) to teach them stuff...
"the moral of the story is...".
I'm not saying the bible is one big fairytale, but it sure can be compared to that in the way some parts are written. Sagas, myths, fairytales and yes even the bible all use a massive amount of metaphores. It doesn't mean it all should be taken literally.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
Now, you may believe it or not. But fact is that they regrow, up to you to decide why only those regrow
It is not up to us to decide. It is prooven science why they may regrow (and others not). This has got nothing todo with what you may 'believe', but everything with science.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
you could say that the universe always existed, without a creator (but what about the Second law of thermodynamics? If it existed billions of years? all energy would be spread throughout the universe, instead of clutter together...)
When I read that Wiki article, the first thing I notice is: "the Big Bang is the scientific theory (...)"
A theory, not a fact...
It is a theory because they can't proof yet HOW the universe evolves during time because they don't have a mathematical model yet. That doesn't not mean they say that God created the universe.
And even then, many theories exist about many stuff, and certain theories go even against others, yet when taken in context, both theories are very valid and prooven!
eg: What you learn today in school about physics, isn't even usefull and doesn't even work when doing stuff on the smallest scale. For that there is quantum physica and those laws don't hold ground on the biggest scale, etc... All that only means scientists don't have a 'mother formula' yet to explain all in 1 go. And with other stuff it would be way to complicated to put everything in one formula, but not impossible. All that does not mean all that stuff is false and God's doing.
It seems to me that you're very confussed about stuff and still searching for your exact 'religion' and what to believe or not.
In other words, try not to proof that God exist (nobody, ever, have been able to do it) and certainly don't drag things into this which you can't explain/understand (yet) yourself as arguments to back this up as all you do is showing you don't understand those things. Certainly do not use scientific facts as arguments...
Moral: not understanding something doesn't mean it's God doing. You may not understand something today, but that is why people are capable of learning and studying. And in the end people will scientifically proof and thus understand stuff. Not everything, but more than enough to even proof that dinausaurs existed, how humans evolved out of animals, how the earth was formed, how the planets were formed...
To give you an example of what is in the bible which people didn't understand at that time, and thus explained it as something by the hand of God: The burning bush which is describe in the bible which Moses saw. That bush actually does exist and is actually a type of plant found in some desert which produces flameable gasses. When the heat is big enough those gasses ignite and the bush burns out. After that, its seeds come to live and because the fires destroyed nearby plants too, the seeds have more chance of growing in the newly furtalised ground.
quote:
Originally posted by Shondoit
How did the very first bacteria survived? It needed oxygen from somewhere? Where did it come from? How did the bacteria get so complex? You need alot of parameters to be just right for a bacteria to transform O2 and glucose to CO2 and water, and for the Plant cells the other way around...
(...)quote:
Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I see no mention of this in the holy book of any religion, but you'll see it in lots of science textbooks. 
Perhaps because it is not true... Did you see any prove of it being possible? I cannot believe we evolved from two ver complex things that need eachother to survive. If evolution was true, it would have taken at least a couple of thousand years to create such bacteria, after which the oxygen, that never existed, would have been used... And how would all those molecules that a bacteria exists of come together? chance?
1) not all bacteria need oxygen
In fact, there are far more bacteria which don't need oxygen than bacteria which do.
Bacteria can also live in cicumstances you can't even imagine. eg: space, 500°C hot water under a massive amount of pressure (black smokers on the bottem of the ocean), they can survive without any sunlight (caves), they can feed on highly possiness chemicals, etc, etc, etc...
2) of course you need a lot of 'parameters' for live to exist. But that does not mean it is impossible and the evolution theory is rubbish.
3) And yes it takes millions of years for something like that to happen and for species to evolve. That is EXACTLY what the evolution theory tells us and has
pooven us... as opposed to God creating everything in 7 days...
4) And yes, it takes some chance for stuff like that to happen, and again this is what the evolution theory tells us and what scientists has prooven to be possible.
Again, it is not because you don't know something, that it isn't possible and/or true and must be the hand of God. I challenge you to actually study some physics and chemistry and stuff before using arguments like that. You would be surprised...
If you then still believe everything is the hand of God, then that's your good right and it will be respected. But at least then you also know how stuff really works (or how scientist have prooven over hundreds of years how stuff works) because as it seems now you only 'believe' because you have no (or little) notion of science and how things work, not because you think God has created everything.
It is not because I don't know how a car exactly works, that it means there is some magic thing going on inside or that it is even God who is pushing the car.
--------------------------------
Also, to think that we, humans, were created by the image of the almightly universe ruling God while there billions of other species and even billions of other planets with possible life in the universe, seems a bit waaaaaaaaaay selfish to me (and I though being selfish is something God does NOT want the humans to be; so this creation theory actually goes against your own religion!!!!!!!!! Hell, this is proof that every religion is flawed and thus shows that religion is a creation of men.)
Not to mention that it is even way more and undescribable selfish of those who believe in Jesus and God to think that they only speak the truth, seeing all the thousands of cultures, religions and what not.
Religion is something humans themselfs have created, not vice versa...
and
quote:
Originally posted by traxor
Religion is simply a belief, it is not fact.
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) planets in the solar system. If there was a creator, why would he make such a huge space and keep us alone? If you really are a creator, why not put more life into it. Surely, thats what id do.
![[Image: 202180054.png]](http://www.speedtest.net/result/202180054.png)
)