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Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
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Pr0xY
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RE: RE: RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
quote:
Originally posted by Tochjo
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
500 promises & after almost a whole year in office... only 5 have received any sort of action (3 still in the works, 2 that Obama compromised on).
I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in this discussion, but I'd like to point out that you can scroll down that list and look at 25 other pages as well. It's not because point 6 to 14 have received no action that the other 486 points haven't either :)
Looks like I was wrong on that one.   Yesterday when I checked that site the first page only had five and page two, three & four were blank.  I assumed the website had sorted them all & did not check the rest.  Thanks Tochjo. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Spunky
snopes dispels a lot of myths surrounding these "lies"
Yep.  I usually check snopes (along with others) as one way to find out if certain things are true or not.

quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
lol, i agree with wacky, why wouldn't you just say the united states? It would be like calling my country The Commonwealth of Australia whenever i talk about it, it's just not needed. It obviously gave the impression to wacky that you think your country is better then any other.
Okay I understand. 

The one time may have rightfully given that impression, but I had only typed the full name of the country once out of all the other times where I just said "America" or "United States".  When taking that into consideration, I feel it was a very tedious thing to bring up & the benefit of the doubt should be given.  Especially on a forum where the vast majority of users are in other countries besides America.

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
rofl, a yes or no question can't be agreed/disagreed with?

Question: is Discrate hot?
Answers1: Yes.
Answer2: No.

Answer2 disagrees with Answer1, but the answers were still yes or no.

I know what you're trying to say, but don't make silly comments like that, lul.
Vaccination, it's not silly, it's a very solid argument if you really think about it.  What's silly is you're quoting one line from a paragraph, taken it out of context & trying to prove a point. 

Physical attractiveness is a perception, dependent on three factors: universal perceptions common to all human cultures, cultural and social aspects and individual subjective preferences.  Your comparison does not work.

There are four basic types of questions: Factual; Convergent; Divergent; and Evaluative. "Has Obama lied?" is a 'Factual' question.   Straight forward answers based on obvious facts or awareness. Example: "What is the name of the Shakespeare play about the Prince of Denmark?"  The answer is "Hamlet".  It's a yes or no, right or wrong answer.

"Is Discrate hot?" is an 'Evaluative' question.  Some guys like larger breasts while others like medium.  Some girls like guys with longer hair while others like guys who are bald.  There is no right or wrong answer to a question like that. It's mainly based on how we've been conditioned while growing up.

The only leeway in the answer to the question "Has Obama lied?" is A.) whether you consider a 'white lie' the same as a lie or, B.) if Obama says something that is not true, someone else points out how he got it wrong and then Obama only comes back & says "Yep, we were actually wrong on that one". (But he has not done that)

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
You're saying that the statement 'Obama lied' is a prove-able fact with only one answer[in your opinion, that answer is: yes]. Unfortunately for you, and as we have seen admirably demonstrated already there is most definitely a lot of room to argue the 'statement'. Just think about it for a second, this is clearly not fact. Let's try to determine what "lying" is, and whether the fact he has spent time and effort in putting things into motion(which he has, as already demonstrated) counts as a successful act. I mean, yeah you can take the view that anything that hasn't been completed fully is a complete fail, but that seems slightly ignorant, don't you think?

You need to realise that things don't happen overnight, remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. I also agree, with Discrate on the healthcare thing: what the fuck is wrong with you?
vaccination I think you're under the impression that I'm saying Obama has lied because he hasn't accomplished what he set out to do.  Which I'm not.  What Obama has lied about & what he has/has not accomplished are two separate conversations...

I fully understand how the legislative process works in the United States, cause I'm very involved in it at a local, state & often national level.  I know  things don't happen over night. I will acknowledge & give credit where it's due when Obama accomplish's good long lasting policies for America. 

America is supposed to be self-governed by the people of the country.  But it's not anymore.  There is vast corruption on all levels.  Policies & agenda's to benefit special interests. America is being governed by a class, an elite few, that often forget who they truly work for and often show little to no regard for the consequential 'blowback' of their policies at home or over seas.

A revolution is going on right now in America.  There are so many Americans fed up with Congress, the House & the Presidential administration. And not just the current one.  People have finally realized how out of control America's 'big government' has become. They are fed up with it & I feel safe to assume that many people in across the world are too.  America needs to take care of the wood plank in it's own eye before trying to pick out the spec of dust in the eye of another country.

quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
Exactly, i explained that to him twice, but i was called an idiot. lol. Again, he's a "I am always right" guy.
Wow Discrate, lying & making things up again huh?  Well, I actually called you an idiot because of the comment below. Remember? Just keep earning that rep I gave you...
quote:
Yesterday at 01:50 PM, Pr0xY wrote:
quote:
Today at 12:21 PM, Discrate wrote:
Are you forgetting the point that i only asked you a simply question at the start, how is he lying? Now your turning it into something else.
You're an idiot. You never once asked me a question.  You did ask Ronaldo and I did follow up with asking what specific category of lies did you want me to start on. But you avoided that & still have not answered.  So now what?

This post was edited on 10-25-2009 at 08:14 PM by Pr0xY.
10-25-2009 05:58 PM
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vaccination
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
Pr0xy, you make me laugh.
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10-25-2009 10:14 PM
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
wiiii, let's mingle....

About the stuff Pr0xY has said:
nice way of taking things waaaaaaaaay out of context. Some Europeans (and others) also do know what they are talking about and they certainly do not see 'just' propaganda, on the contrary! I start to believe that you're looking at all those things in a very subjective way without seeing the big picture (or at least the real big picture instead of the so called 'conspiracy' picture). Not everything, but many things you've said I find bull shit too, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose....

About the stuff Discrate has said in the beginning of the thread:
Same 'bull shit' at first, but quite often put in such a way that it is flaming, name calling, insulting, etc. And I think _that_ is the reason why you got a neg. rep, thus because in the way you always vent your 'opinions'. Thus not so much that you don't agree with Pr0xY, but because in the way you always seem to need to insult people at some point if you don't agree with them.


----------

So, talking about opinions...

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional).  Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
sorry but lol

To give an example: "Taking over the car industry"? lol. If you wanna put it that way I'd say it's about time somebody 'takes over' the car industry since it has an extremely big lobby and way too much power over what the governement does. So, if someone tries to do something about it you say they are "taking over" as if it is a bad thing. On the same time when that same guy fails in doing something because of maybe a big lobby, you say "they are corrupted and lying and owned by the lobby"; it's seem to be always the guy's fault.

In other words, you don't look at the big picture and you're blinded by your own personal opinion and beliefs and distored views about stuff and the guy in person. Not objective at all, not even in the slightest way. So who is being bombarded with propaganda in one way or the other?

Many people in the world (the majority actually) see Obama doing good stuff. And yes, of course he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? As Wacky has said, I'd love to see you running a governement or even a local administry and would love to see how you would cope. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get very far with the kind of views you have.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong, but at least give him some credit as he is doing very well overall. And of course, some desicions aren't going to be nice for some people. We hate it too when somebody increases the taxes over here or whatever, but in the end it is supposed to be better for everyone.

It's like, everybody wants improvements, but nobody wants to cut in their own backyard, so let's be very selfish, and without caring about the bigger picture, let's bash the guy trying todo something about it.

quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
Couldn't have said it better.

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Do you not get it?  It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree.  We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied.  The subject has no room for self opinion.  Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
Errrr.... it is all politics. Politics is _never_ black or white. It is always gray! There is no one perfect solution because with everything you decide or do, there are always two sides and some disadvantages. Political stuff is _not_ science and will never be! It are only extremists which see everything in black and white. Even the statement itself "Is Obama lying?" (in the political context) shows a lack of political insight imho.

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
Socialism, yes maybe. But then what? Socialsm isn't entirly bad. And every form has its advantages/disadvantages. But socialism is in no way comparable to fascism or nazism. If you think it is, you clearly do not know what they are or at least have a very distorted view of them.

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them.  Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either.  Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians).  Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
Working very well? Sure, but for whom? There are some good things to say about it, but the majority of the world has always seen the current health care system in America as not something very well. And, as an outsider, it is good to see somebody finally trying to do something about it because it very clearly was going in the wrong way. It works very well for certain (rich) people, but there are a hell of a lot of problems for all the other people. But yes, reforming something is always painfull for some individual people, but in the end it usually turns out better for everybody.
.-= A 'frrrrrrrituurrr' for Wacky =-.
10-26-2009 01:26 AM
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
I think Obama deserved the award. It's just that some people are racist or degrading him because of his color. Besides, he really set peace with everyone. Unlike, Bush who spent the money of America into the useless and non sense war like in Iraq. Which basically, one reason why US is having a recession. No offense to everyone. Just stating my opinion.

This post was edited on 10-26-2009 at 05:45 PM by Tochjo.
10-26-2009 05:27 PM
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Rolando
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RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
quote:
Originally posted by scarlet0906
I think Obama deserved the award. It's just that some people are racist or degrading him because of his color. Besides, he really set peace with everyone. Unlike, Bush who spent the money of America into the useless and non sense war like in Iraq. Which basically, one reason why US is having a recession. No offense to everyone. Just stating my opinion.

Really.... 1 and 2 :^).. oh and 3

Yep, he hasn't spent money on wars. You're right.

Btw, I've tons of black friends. One of my best friends is black. I hate racism... so don't generalize. Stop using the race card, we're in the 21st century, most people don't care about race [apparently they care about people's sexualities (still stupid to discriminate, but that's a whole different subject)].

I hate how people always say anyone who disagrees with Obama is racist. It makes them sound stupid.

This post was edited on 10-26-2009 at 06:59 PM by Rolando.
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10-26-2009 06:57 PM
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Pr0xY
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
I was gonna reply to Pr0xY's bullshit, but maybe it's not worth it =p.  tbh I don't watch the news enough to have an educated debate... I just have common sense. 8-)
Common sense or just conditioned thinking?  Remember WDZ, 'common sense' also once said the world was flat. Although, if you're not educated enough on the subject t/o challenge the content & make a counter arguement backed by information, facts & sources, then I suppose it is easier to just call it bullshit.
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
I wonder if Pr0xY knows the definition of "lie" :p . "An intentionally false statement" / "A statement intended to deceive".
I wonder if you read the whole page...
Verb: "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive" / "to create a false or misleading impression" - Noun: "an assertion of something known or believed by the speaker to be untrue with intent to deceive" / "an untrue or inaccurate statement that may or may not be believed true by the speaker" / "something that misleads or deceives" Webster
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
If I say I'll go to the store and buy peanut butter, but when I get to the store they don't have any peanut butter, am I a liar?
lol, It depends on whether you already knew the store was out of peanut butter before saying you'd go pick some up. :o

:type: :type: :type: :type: :type:


Two things I want to start off with... First, I'm pretty sure most of my information in this post is accurate & can be backed by sources, examples, ext.. If you have a question about something, just ask. Second. On accident I incorrectly worded the statistic wacky quote's me on below, so let me clarify: it's "15% of people in America", not "15% of actual American Citizens". My bad.

quote:
Originally posted by wacky
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.
Yes & No.  Yes your facts are somewhat correct. No, it's definitely not 5 million, cause that would only be 1.6% of the US population.  Yes it is indeed 15%, as 47 million (4.634M to be exact) is 15% of the US population.  Side note: What state in the US does your friend live in & do you know if it's too expensive for him to purchase Health Insurance or just too expensive of a out of pocket deductible?
quote:
Originally posted by President Obama (March 5, 2009)
"Even for folks who are weathering this economic storm, and have health care right now, all it takes is one stroke of bad luck -- an accident or an illness, a divorce, a lost job -- to become one of the nearly 46 million uninsured or the millions who have health care, but really can't afford what they've got." Official Source
The statistic comes from an annual report by the U.S. Census Bureau, which at the time of Obama's speech, pegged the number of uninsured at 45.7 million for 2007.  The annual report is called "Income, Poverty, and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States". The 2008 report was just released last month, September (2009). Here are the reports from the past four years: 2008, 2007, 2006 & 2005.  Let's just dive right in into 2008, page 28 please!!!

According to the US Census Bureau:
  • There are 46,340,000 TOTAL people in America without Health Care Insurance.

  • 9,511,000 of them are not American citizens.

  • 17,759,000 have an annual Household Income of over $50,000 US Dollars.  Of those, 9,725,000 have an annual household income of over $75,000. 

  • 18.9 million of the uninsured were between the age of 24-34.  It's also important to acknowledge & consider the possibility that some in this age group may have  decided to go without coverage simply because they are young and healthy (I know many that do this).  I won't subtract part of this from the 46M total, since it's an unknown.

So now we have a somewhat more accurate count.  Just over 19 million (6.3%) of American citizens without Health Care Insurance.  Or is it accurate? What if the  numbers overlapped?  Even though I find it hard to believe that a significant amount of the 9.5M Non US Citizens may be a part of the 17.7M making over $50,000 a year, I'll give the benefit of the doubt. How about 4 million of the total 9.5M Non US Citizens are also making over $50,000 a year?

Lets call it an even 23 million (7.6% of) American citizens that go without Health Care Insurance because they cannot afford it. Only 7.6%...huh?  Honestly now, do any of you 'still' believe this isn't about power & control? Cause it's definitely not about lowering an already low profit margin of Health Insurance companies, or lowering drug costs, or lowering medical supply costs, or providing competition. lol. That one always makes me laugh... LOL Government providing competition, without worrying about making a profit.  ROFL....

Btw, great read.. Sally Pipes notes in the Top Ten Myths of American Health Care: A Citizen's Guide
--------------------------------
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
wiiii, let's mingle....

About the stuff Pr0xY has said:
nice way of taking things waaaaaaaaay out of context. Some Europeans (and others) also do know what they are talking about and they certainly do not see 'just' propaganda, on the contrary! I start to believe that you're looking at all those things in a very subjective way without seeing the big picture (or at least the real big picture instead of the so called 'conspiracy' picture). Not everything, but many things you've said I find bull shit too, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose....
I may have steered off subject but what have I quoted out of context?

Real journalism is alive & present throughout Europe, on a multitude of media levels (more so than the USA). Many Europeans (and others as well) do also have solid knowledge of what they're talking about & they may see more than just propaganda.  However, I would highly dispute how many on a day to day basis actually see, hear or independently explore and follow the specific underlying details. It is an absolute necessity to have a strong knowledge & understanding on fundamental principles of these issues. (And the United States, framers, founding documents, ext..).  Otherwise, puzzle piece views and opinions will unintentionally create accusations, misconceptions & judgments.

Generally speaking though, it's always a matter of perspective for most people.  My main priority is to see everything in the big picture, globally & nationally.  This is why I appreciate when others step outside the box of what their culture has conditioned them to believe in, openly listen & discuss the views of others.  Including at least somewhat of a solid base for their argument, to answer the "Why's?" of your view point.

I do not believe I'm looking at this in a subjective way and especially not as what many forum members have labeled as a "conspiracy" theory.  Honestly, my views & thoughts of a government seeking more & more control is far from any real conspiracy theory.  Like “9/11 truthers/inside job”, “JFK assignation”, “Big Brother is watching”, “One world government”, “US faked the moon landing”, “Globel Warming”, “Elite bankers control the world”, “Rockefeller Takeover”, “2012 World destruction”, “Free Masons”, “H1N1 released by Government for population control”… ext… 

So while you may consider what I've said as 'the conspiracy picture' and think that you're aware of the 'big picture', just ready for the possibility that you're merely looking at a puzzle piece and nothing close to the "big picture". :)

------------------

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

So, talking about opinions...

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional).  Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
sorry but lol

To give an example: "Taking over the car industry"? lol. If you wanna put it that way I'd say it's about time somebody 'takes over' the car industry since it has an extremely big lobby and way too much power over what the governement does. So, if someone tries to do something about it you say they are "taking over" as if it is a bad thing. On the same time when that same guy fails in doing something because of maybe a big lobby, you say "they are corrupted and lying and owned by the lobby"; it's seem to be always the guy's fault.

In other words, you don't look at the big picture and you're blinded by your own personal opinion and beliefs and distored views about stuff and the guy in person. Not objective at all, not even in the slightest way. So who is being bombarded with propaganda in one way or the other?
lol Cookie, you are.  I really couldn't help but cackle when I read this. Honestly, I'm kind of disappointed in the quality of your post.  Out of seven comparisons you picked only one & used what I think is a flaud argument, based solely on your opinions & not accurate information. 

Big Labor / Unions have a huge involvement & say in US Federal Government & political issue. They help politicians get elected in exchange for them to pass new policies that favor the unions special interests.
quote:
Originally posted by SEIU President Any Stern
"We spent a fortune to elect Barack Obama-$60.7 million, to be exact-and we're proud of it."
94% of the SEIU's 2008 contributions went to Democrats.

When unions (Big Labor) were first created in the United States, they gained tremendus power by giving masses of mistreated workers the right to bravely stand up and simply fought for fairness.  They didn't demand special rights, they demaned equal rights.  Unfortinetely now times seem of have changed a bit.  It's not 1930 anymore & US workers aren't being sent down a mine without water or a flashlight.  The reason for Unions are slowly disappearing & as such, they are desperately grasping any chance of survival.  Which is why Unions/Big Labor are now in bed with Big Government/politicians.

Big Labor made up twelve of the twenty top donors from 1989 to 2008.  Here are those twelve.
  • #2 - American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees.
  • #6 - International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers.
  • #7 - National Education Association. 
  • #8 - Laborers Union.
  • #9 - Service Employees International Union.
  • #10 - Carpenters & Joiners Union.
  • #11 - Teamsters Union.
  • #12 - Communications Workers of America. 
  • #14 - American Federation of Teachers.
  • #16 - United Auto Workers.
  • #17 - Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union.
  • #20 - United Food & Commercial Workers Union.
Source

The US Federal Government wouldn't be able to successfully run a hot dog stand.  Yet you think its good that they are put in charge of so many huge parts of our economy?  With so much power over an economy, they can't control it without also controlling the people.

The US Federal Government was created for very limited purposes, by the states, on behalf of 'We The People'.  The American citizens hold all the power, controlling & employing the US Federal Government to carry out only the enumerated powers listed in Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution. Other then those, the rest is taken care of at the State Government level & below. 

Now I've never met or heard anyone that considered the powers & limites of the U.S. Constistution as blinding propaganda, but for the sake of entertainment, please inlighten me.

----------------------

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Many people in the world (the majority actually) see Obama doing good stuff. And yes, of course he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? As Wacky has said, I'd love to see you running a governement or even a local administry and would love to see how you would cope. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get very far with the kind of views you have. 
The kind of views I have?  I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington.  Those views on the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America.  Go read a history book ya noob.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Then again, maybe I'm wrong, but at least give him some credit as he is doing very well overall. And of course, some desicions aren't going to be nice for some people. We hate it too when somebody increases the taxes over here or whatever, but in the end it is supposed to be better for everyone.

It's like, everybody wants improvements, but nobody wants to cut in their own backyard, so let's be very selfish, and without caring about the bigger picture, let's bash the guy trying todo something about it.
What's "supposed to be better" & what really happens are two different stories.  The US Federal Government's budget spending has increased by over 40% since 1990.  Money I worked my ass off to earn is taken away a variety of reasons, 25% of which gets handed out like candy at a parade.

So give him credit for what?  Give my US Federal Big Government credit for what?  If you're going to label what I'm saying as just opinion, you better counter it with something more than just other opinions.  How is he doing well over all?  Come on give examples.   Foreign policy?  The economy?  Monetary policy? Monetary policy is a huge one.  What is Obama doing that's great for Monetary policy?  America's credit is so bad that the country is close to losing their "AAA" status.

So you're damn right.  When someone manipulates the numbers like Obama did on the uninsured in America, or appoints extremely radical advisors, I will question his motives & demand answers.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
Couldn't have said it better.
Yes you could have.  You could address the real issues.    European Countries & the United States are not the same & a level of socialism in the US should never be desensitized by comaring it to Europe.  Minimizing the seriousness of the issue by saying "Well Obama isn't currently 'that' left field" is naive.  Should only raise the alarm if theres freedom one day & storm troopers marching in the street the next?  It's not sudden change, it's slow distortion.  Dribs & drabs.

Obama will not come out & say what he really want to transform the country into.  Why? If they were honest about what they wanted and met on the battle field of ideas & reason, America would throw them out.

The US Federal Government is filled with a bunch of weasels & booker eating idiots.  The US Congress has a approval rating in the low 20%.  Just wait till the 2010 elections, you'll see how many get thrown out.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Do you not get it?  It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree.  We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied.  The subject has no room for self opinion.  Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
Errrr.... it is all politics. Politics is _never_ black or white. It is always gray! There is no one perfect solution because with everything you decide or do, there are always two sides and some disadvantages. Political stuff is _not_ science and will never be! It are only extremists which see everything in black and white. Even the statement itself "Is Obama lying?" (in the political context) shows a lack of political insight imho.
No, Government & politics in your country & others may always be full of grey & compromise, but that's not how it's suppose to be in my country.  The major political issues are black or white, not grey.  There's no room for compromise when our founding document specifically states how to handle it.

If you give government the ability to live & work in the grey, they'll try (and succeed) at deceiving (lie) & manipulating the public.  At that point, they'll gain more & more power, scaring the people into thinking if they sacrifice just a little bit of their freedoms, the world will be a better place.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
Socialism, yes maybe. But then what? Socialsm isn't entirly bad. And every form has its advantages/disadvantages. But socialism is in no way comparable to fascism or nazism. If you think it is, you clearly do not know what they are or at least have a very distorted view of them.
This is America.  We're already a huge welfare state with a lot of lazy people mooching off hand outs.  If we adopt Socialism, you better be real & acknowledge that it won't work out.  Socialism will only last as long as the money supply does.   My view of Socialism isn't distorted. I just constantly remind myself of what Socialism will become in a world filled with greed, laziness & freewill.

I'm weaving together what might appear to be disparate scenarios, but when viewed as a whole, leave you with the nagging feeling that Obama and his team are much further left than his campaign rhetoric led us to believe.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them.  Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either.  Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians).  Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
Working very well? Sure, but for whom? There are some good things to say about it, but the majority of the world has always seen the current health care system in America as not something very well. And, as an outsider, it is good to see somebody finally trying to do something about it because it very clearly was going in the wrong way. It works very well for certain (rich) people, but there are a hell of a lot of problems for all the other people. But yes, reforming something is always painfull for some individual people, but in the end it usually turns out better for everybody.
For whom? For the world of course.

Someone from the U.S. has won the Nobel Prize for medicine in 36 of the last 43 years, or about 84% of the time.  The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care. We were able to break new ground & achieve those discoveries with a system Obama is trying to reform. 

Government option?
  • Live in Italy & need a mammogram? You'll be able to get plenty done in the meantime, the average wait is 70 days.

  • In Great Britain, About 20% of patients with treatable colon cancer at the time of discovery are considered incurable by the time treatment is finally available.
-------------------------------------------------
The MRI and the CT scanner are rated as the most important medical innovations of the late 20th century.  Where is it easiest to find one? Well lets see...

United Kingdom: MRI = 7.5 devices per million people.
United Kingdom: CT = 8.5 devices per million people.

France: MRI = 5 devices per million people.
France: CT = 10 devices per million people.

Canada: MRI = 7 devices per million people.
Canada: CT = 12 devices per million people.

United States: MRI = 27.5 devices per million people.
United States: CT = 34 devices per million people.

Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, "OCED Health Data 2009 --Frequently Requested Data," oced.org, accessed July 2, 2009

-------------------------------------------------
-When free health care isn't free-

Percentage of health care cost paid out-of-pocket. All countries other than the United States have universal health care.
  • Switzerland - 33%
  • Spain - 23.5%
  • Italy - 23%
  • Finland - 20.5%
  • Denmark - 15.5%
  • Canada - 15.5%
  • United States - 15%
  • Ireland - 13.5%
  • Germany - 11%
  • France - 11%
Source. Elizabeth Docteur and Howard Oxley. "Health-Care Systems: Lessons from the Reform Experience"
-------------------------------------------------
quote:
Originally posted by Discrate
Hes one of those "OBAMA LIED, EVEN THOUGH HE HASN'T LIED ABOUT ANYTHING" "OBAMA IS TRYING TO RUIN AMERICA BY PROVIDING US WITH HEALTH CARE REFORM THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP US" people.  Just got a pm off him aswell, hes a complete fuckwit.
Do you still believe I'm a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die? Or just someone who sees more then you (maybe too much) and is just piecing together a puzzle...

This post was edited on 10-29-2009 at 02:47 AM by Pr0xY.
10-29-2009 02:15 AM
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CookieRevised
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....:p

You seem to miss the point of what somebody has said quite a lot though.

Sure you're able to "backup" (mind the quotes) many things with numbers and a lot of blahblah. But that does not make them true since you can proof almost anything by numbers and stats, and quite often certain things are left out for the convenience of proving things.

And no, I'm not going to waste my time to search and link to other articles which proofs mostly what you've said is wrong or at the least extremely exaggerated. But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.

------------------

But let's just pick some quotes which, IMHO, sums up everything:

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, etc.  Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The kind of views I have?  I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington.  Those views on the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care.

Yeah... nice worldly and factual view and a lot of common sense you have...  :rolleyes:

------------------------------------

Oh, and lobbies (if I use the right word) are not the same thing as labor unions, btw. A lot of the big lobbies actually have nothing todo with labor unions at all. Another thing were you twist things around, trying to proof stuff with a lot of figures and stats.

PS: Personally, I don't believe you are a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die, but I certainly do believe you see way more stuff which isn't there than me or anyone else for that matter... and not "maybe too much", but waaaaaaaaaaay too much......

Anyways, in short: call me whatever you want but I don't share any of your opinions and you will never be able to convince me otherwise with those kind of views or "facts" as you call it. And I blame that on my common sense...

-------

EDIT: @Th3rmal... sorry :'(      ... :p

This post was edited on 08-30-2010 at 09:59 PM by CookieRevised.
.-= A 'frrrrrrrituurrr' for Wacky =-.
10-29-2009 03:30 AM
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Th3rmal
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
Cookie, im dissapointed in you. When life gives you someone who writes a longer post than you, you take that as a challenge. You dont just sit back and think "Ive done my bit".
You strive to be the best.

So click on that edit button, and I expect a minimum ((Pr0xY's word count) +50) word essay proving him otherwise. And I want it by 0900 hours wherever you live.
You have the intellect comparable to that of a rock. Be proud.
10-29-2009 04:15 AM
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RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
quote:
Originally posted by Th3rmal
Cookie, im dissapointed in you. When life gives you someone who writes a longer post than you, you take that as a challenge. You dont just sit back and think "Ive done my bit".
You strive to be the best.

So click on that edit button, and I expect a minimum ((Pr0xY's word count) +50) word essay proving him otherwise. And I want it by 0900 hours wherever you live.
:rofl:

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....:p
What was the word count? :P

* John Anderton slaps Pr0xY around a bit with his post printed into a hard copy book :tongue:
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10-29-2009 06:45 AM
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Pr0xY
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RE: RE: Your daily dose of WTF: Obama Wins the Peace Prize
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
You seem to miss the point of what somebody has said quite a lot though.

Sure you're able to "backup" (mind the quotes) many things with number and a lot of blahblah. But that does not make them true since you can proof almost anything by numbers and stats, and quite often certain things are left out for the convenience of prooving things.
Lol cookie you sound like a politician now.  Many people can take a pole or survey or "Government Issued census" and manipulate the numbers into what best benefits them. However, I provided the sources as well, so if you feel anything was 'left out' for the sake of proving things, just check for yourself. 

Obama does a good example of manipulating the numbers, which I showed in the first part of my last post

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And no, I'm not going to waste my time to search and link to other articles which proofs mostly what you've said is wrong or at the least extremely exaggerated. But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.
It would be a big waste of time because... they don't exist. (Or at least can't be backed up with anything other than opinions... 8-) ) This stuff is far from being extremely aggregated. 

There are people running around here screaming "the government wants to kill us with the swine flu shot." Or "The H1N1 shot has a tracking bug" Or "Omg the dollar is crashing, one world currency is coming!".  That stuff is the extreme.   I just don't understand how so many people put all their trust in government.  When you grant 'government' the right to give you something, they also have the right to take it away for any reason.  Once you give up an inch of the principle, it's gone forever.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

But you could at least start reading the already posted links to articles in this thread with normal common sense and without a big blindfold on. Because if normal people read some articles already posted here (although posted to try to proof the opposite) they apparently read something different than you.
O_o What is that suppose to mean?  All I want is freedom to control my own life (obviously without causing direct harm to others).  I have no blind fold on, no agenda, no politician, bill or policy that I want passed to benefit my agenda.  I openly seek the truth & welcome constructive arguments.  But it helps when they actually explain the "Why's". 

So how should a 'normal person with common sense' go about reading the articles I've posted?

------------------

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
But let's just pick some quotes which, IMHO, sums up everything:

quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
"Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks....."  ".....Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't."
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The kind of views I have?  I have the same views as Thomas Jefferson, James Madison & George Washington.  Those views won the Revolutionary War & built the foundation of America.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The rest of the world is feasting off America’s advancements in health care.

Yeah... nice worldly and factual view and a lot of common sense you have...  :rolleyes:
Three quotes on three different issues.  I suppose it sums up that:  A) I hold Federal Government in America to the limited powers we've granted them.   B) I believe in the founding principles of my country.  C) Understand that true innovation & prosperity happens a world that does not put a cap on success.

------------------------------------

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Oh, and lobbies (if I use the right word) are not the same thing as labor unions, btw. A lot of the big lobbies actually have nothing todo with labor unions at all. Another thing were you twist things around, but try to proof stuff with a lot of figures and stats.
You seem to be missing (or avoiding) the point.  It doesn't solve anything.  Their "purpose" may not always be the same, but their influence in the government is.  Big Lobby and Big Union have the same dirty fingers meddling in the legislative branch.  Big Lobby control isn't lessoned because of this, it's expanded.  Now they have even more reason to fund & influence politicians & government policy.

Instead of looking at the underlying cause of problems, Government rushes to 'quick solutions' that appear to offer a fix.  But it doesn’t give a long lasting solution.  They don't deal with the main issue, mainly because their wallet would get lighter if they did. 

I quoted this once before too, but it's appropriate. Albert Einstein once said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same level of thinking that created it."  This is why Obama will not accomplish anything good or productive with long lasting effects.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

PS: Personally, I don't believe you are a complete f*ckwit that wants everyone to die, but I certainly do believe you see way more than me or anyone else for that matter... and not "maybe too much", but waaaaaaaaaaay too much......

Anyways, in short: call me whatever you want but I don't share any of your opinions and you will never be able to convince me otherwise with those kind of views (or "facts" as you call it). And I blame that on my common sense...
Fair enough.  Although there are many Americans raising these questions & I'd even say (Soon enough) you’ll see more & more people begin to talk about it. (Just may have to look outside an IM Add-on forum).




quote:
Originally posted by John Anderton

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Congratulations... you broke the longest bs post record....:p
What was the word count? :P
About 2,400 (Not counting quotes)

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This post was edited on 10-29-2009 at 08:35 PM by Pr0xY.
10-29-2009 01:19 PM
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