Shoutbox

quote:

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Originally posted by foaly
That is not what I'm saying at all. Because you lower the balance of the chain way below the tumble point, you make it easier for the chain to balance...

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Easier or harder is irrelevant. The thing would still be in the exact same state. The center of gravity has got nothing todo in all of this.

0.999999999999999999 is still lower than 1. It is not because it is 'closer' to one than 0.5 that it isn't lower anymore.

quote:

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Originally posted by foaly
What is probably even more important is that by adding the chain you make a circle, this makes the chain have to pull itself down when sliding one way or another...

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no. It pulls itself down _equally_ on both side, aka it cancels itself out! It does _not_ pull harder on one side than on the other side; it pulls equally hard on _both_ sides.

quote:

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Originally posted by foaly
I'll add a picture in a sec showing how ludicrous it is that you could just add a chain and expect it to be the same situation....

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Your drawing is a complete different system than what SonicSam has drawn. My drawings in my previous post are of the exact same system as what SonicSam has drawn. Notice that in the system of SonisSam the end points lay on the same horizontal plane.

hence:

quote:

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Originally posted by foaly
....The theory behind it is still the same...

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But you are using a different system than SonicSam, not me.

quote:

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Originally posted by vaccination
Cookie, connecting the chains is NOT the same as adding a 10kg weight to either side.

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Sorry, but it certainly is. Look again at SonicSam's drawing...

quote:

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Originally posted by vaccination
Lets say you connect a 20kg chain to the ends of the other chain (ie: the green chain in your diagrams has a mass of 20kg) this is not evenly distributed to 10kg at each end of the initial chain

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Of course it is not 10Kg pulling on either side, but it IS evenly distributed. Hence there is no extra force pulling more on one side than it is on the other! That is basic (vector) math.

x     y
\   /
  \ /
   |
  #20Kg

quote:

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Originally posted by vaccination
...like it would if you simply attached a 10kg mass to each end, instead the majority of the 20kg mass of the new chain falls downwards and to the middle, meaning that an extra 20kg of mass is now in effect on the original chain at the point where the two slopes meet.

Anyway, if you can't understand how f= mgh works, I would just stop posting in this thread, since you've mostly posted nonsense, I'm afraid.

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I'm sorry, but what I posted is 100% correct and I even apply that science in every day work when I need to fly spot lights and scenery in the theater (hence the reason how I came up with that extra chain)

quote:

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Originally posted by vaccination
I mean, three of your four diagrams don't even match the criteria of the experiment (ignoring the absurdity of this random extra chain you've decided to magic up).

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They _all_ match exactly the criteria...
And again, the extra chain does not have _any_ influence on the balance of the system.