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Do you often have dramas with the Custom Sounds feature?
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1 votes - 5 average   Sounds Feature for Plus
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djshotty
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O.P. Sounds Feature for Plus
I am sick and tired of having only sporadic use of the Custom Sounds feature, and the pop-up of "Please check your security settings".  When are you going to fix this program so that custom sounds can be sent between users like pictures are shared, and not sent through a third party rubbishbox of a server that always seems to have dramas?
08-20-2010 09:03 AM
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roflmao456
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
Why didn't you report when you first received this error? There is no need to be upset about one small feature.

Also, let me remind you that Messenger Plus! Live is freeware. I would understand you being upset if this was shareware or something.

Anyway, I haven't encountered this problem :P.
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08-20-2010 08:10 PM
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djshotty
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O.P. Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by roflmao456
Why didn't you report when you first received this error? There is no need to be upset about one small feature.

I didn't report this failure earlier, because I'm a patient man and didn't want to go off over it, for the reasons you mention below...

quote:
Also, let me remind you that Messenger Plus! Live is freeware. I would understand you being upset if this was shareware or something.

With it being freeware, you'd think this problem wouldn't exist.  Why does a custom sound have to go through a private server on its journey p2p anyway?  This doesn't happen for photos or other files shared between users, and with a 12 second high quality *wav file being around the 500k mark for filesize, I can't see why sending a sound bite of about 10 seconds is such an issue.

quote:
Anyway, I haven't encountered this problem :P.

Well, you're all by yourself, and more than likely haven't got any friends who would want to send you funny stuff anyway.  Why do you think we spec-ops go running for the latest A-Patch the moment you lot release an update?  I'll tell you - it's because Messenger Plus isn't the best it can be...

This post was edited on 08-20-2010 at 10:31 PM by djshotty.
08-20-2010 10:28 PM
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Chrono
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
Why does a custom sound have to go through a private server on its journey p2p anyway?
The sound is not sent p2p. It's actually uploaded to the server (once) and then it's downloaded for your contact and every other contact you send it to. The whole point of making the feature like this is that you can easily share sounds, you can download random sounds, you can have a centralized database where to download sound packs from and then import them, etc. (pretty much, to make a more complete feature overall).

The whole idea is really cool when it works well, and i've got to agree with you on that one: Nowadays the servers aren't working well. i've noticed how they're always "down"/not working at about the same time everyday, and it can get quite frustrating. I wish Yuna will eventually fix the servers so the feature works like it used to (and how it's intended to).

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
Well, you're all by yourself, and more than likely haven't got any friends who would want to send you funny stuff anyway.
You didnt need to be that aggressive.
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08-21-2010 05:42 AM
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djshotty
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O.P. RE: RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by Chrono
quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
Why does a custom sound have to go through a private server on its journey p2p anyway?
The sound is not sent p2p. It's actually uploaded to the server (once) and then it's downloaded for your contact and every other contact you send it to. The whole point of making the feature like this is that you can easily share sounds, you can download random sounds, you can have a centralized database where to download sound packs from and then import them, etc. (pretty much, to make a more complete feature overall).

The whole idea is really cool when it works well, and i've got to agree with you on that one: Nowadays the servers aren't working well. i've noticed how they're always "down"/not working at about the same time everyday, and it can get quite frustrating. I wish Yuna will eventually fix the servers so the feature works like it used to (and how it's intended to)

And therein lies my frustration.  I ask a simple question, only to get a n00b's answer.  Simply put, why does each sound need to go through a centralised database/server?  When I share an ordinary file with a contact, it goes straight to them without any dramas at all (except for a slight detour at host and client for the anti-virus check that MSN like to do).  Why, then, does a 500kb *.wav/*.ogg/*.aac file need to be treated any differently?

If I want 'Sound Packs' then I can download them to share with my friends, or create them myself - as I do now - from sound bite recordings of TV shows, movies, etc.  I then would use the MSN sound library feature to import those 'sound bites' as assets into my local MSN install (private folder), then forward them - like an ordinary file share - to the contact I want to play the sound to.  Low complexity audio files are quite small nowadays, so to quickly fire a 100kb *.aac sound bite P2P should be a hell of a lot easier and faster than you lot are making it.

As for being aggressive, he started it by poking his tongue out...
08-21-2010 12:20 PM
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
When you're asking for help, that is no way to respond to someone who was just trying to help and asking why you hadn't reported it earlier, not a "n00b's answer".

Your first message was aggresive, you weren't asking for help, you were having a rant.  and since when was a joking :P smiley aggressive?

Try showing a bit of respect and then perhaps you'll receive it back
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08-21-2010 01:24 PM
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Menthix
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
why does each sound need to go through a centralised database/server?
Because P2P connections are unreliable. Not everyone is configured to allow a direct connection. For example routers blocking incoming connections etc. To keeps things as simple as possible a plain HTTP connection was chosen to a server which won't have the problem of incoming connections. Messenger files transfers work over P2P, but even those are piped through one of Microsoft's servers if incoming connections are blocked and uPNP disabled. Microsoft just has the luxury of hundreds of server all around the world in multiple datacenters. While Yuna Software last time I heard has 4 or 6 servers for the sounds all hosted in the same rack.

Changing Plus! to support sending the sounds over a direct connection between the contacts is not a quick fix. It will probably take less time just to figure out why the sound servers are being unreliable, optimize it, and maybe throw some more hardware at it. Even if you Plus! would support direct connections, it will still need to have their servers to fall back on in cases where a direct connection just doesn't work. It would be nice if Plus! 5 could just pipe the custom sounds through as a voiceclip. That would safe a lot of trouble and be as reliable as a regular soundclip. Messenger Plus! added custom sounds years before Microsoft came out with soundclips though. Even a regular file transfer was still a hassle at the time when Plus! introduced custom sounds.

I don't see anything changing around custom sounds in the short term. But Plus! 5 is in the making, hopefully it will get a overhaul or at least the reliability of the servers will be improved.


quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
As for being aggressive, he started it by poking his tongue out
That's the first time I've ever seen a :p smiley perceived as something provoking or aggressive. Acting aggressive sure won't help anyone solve the issue faster.
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08-21-2010 01:38 PM
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
I didn't report this failure earlier, because I'm a patient man and didn't want to go off over it, for the reasons you mention below...
Understandable. But if you encounter something which you think isn't right, then report it as soon as possible by all means. Because chances are it might otherwise not be noticed (because it isn't a common bug) and you end up waiting for nothing...

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
quote:
Also, let me remind you that Messenger Plus! Live is freeware. I would understand you being upset if this was shareware or something.
With it being freeware, you'd think this problem wouldn't exist.
Freeware/Shareware/Beerware/Etc all have little to nothing todo with bugs!

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
Why does a custom sound have to go through a private server on its journey p2p anyway?  This doesn't happen for photos or other files shared between users, and with a 12 second high quality *wav file being around the 500k mark for filesize, I can't see why sending a sound bite of about 10 seconds is such an issue.
Strong correction: Windows Live Messenger uses 'private' servers too when sending such stuff in some circumstances. They don't always go directly P2P either... For example when there is no direct connection allowed (just to give a very simple example). Second, Windows Live Messenger's file transfer is not without its (frustrating) problems either.

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
quote:
Anyway, I haven't encountered this problem :P.
Well, you're all by yourself, and more than likely haven't got any friends who would want to send you funny stuff anyway.  Why do you think we spec-ops go running for the latest A-Patch the moment you lot release an update?  I'll tell you - it's because Messenger Plus isn't the best it can be...
FYI: I don't experience any problems either, and I'm not alone, and I have a lot of friends, thank you.
In fact, problems with the sound servers are actually _not_ that common if you look at the entire userbase of Messenger Plus! Live. That is, I'm not saying there aren't any problems though, because some people do have problems on a regular basis with them. But at the same time, many other people don't experience any problems at all.

Second, A-Patch does not have anything todo with Messenger Plus!, nor can it fix anything Messenger Plus! Live alters or does. So, installing it to fix something after a new version of Messenger Plus! gets released, makes no sense at all...

A-Patch is for tweaking some stuff in Windows Live Messenger itself. It never ever is used to tweak something in Messenger Plus! Live. On the contrary, Messenger Plus! Live and A-Patch alter some of the same things. Even more, Messenger Plus! Live can alter some things (or in a more detailed way) which A-Patch can not...

Third, "We lot" do not program nor release Messenger Plus!. "We lot" are just people trying to help others with Messenger Plus! and Windows Live Messenger, nothing more, nothing less. Messenger Plus! is programmed and released by Yuna Software.

So, plz get your facts strait before getting upset too much about something which we can not do anything about it except for passing your report to the proper people.

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
...And therein lies my frustration.  I ask a simple question, only to get a n00b's answer. Simply put, why does each sound need to go through a centralised database/server?
Sorry, but Chrono explained it very well why it uses a centralised server, and there is nothing noobish about it.

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
When I share an ordinary file with a contact, it goes straight to them without any dramas at all (except for a slight detour at host and client for the anti-virus check that MSN like to do).  Why, then, does a 500kb *.wav/*.ogg/*.aac file need to be treated any differently?
As explained above, files send from Messenger do not always go directly to the contact, but go thru some MS server too in some cases (and I'm not talking about the new anti-virus detour).
But I dunno what you mean with that 500Kb sound file though. If you're talking about Messenger Plus! custom sounds: they are not 500Kb files at all.

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
If I want 'Sound Packs' then I can download them to share with my friends, or create them myself - as I do now - from sound bite recordings of TV shows, movies, etc.  I then would use the MSN sound library feature to import those 'sound bites' as assets into my local MSN install (private folder), then forward them - like an ordinary file share - to the contact I want to play the sound to.
There is no MSN sound library. There is a Messenger Plus! Live Sound Library though. Again, know what you're talking about and use the proper namings if you want to discuss something helps quite a lot...

quote:
Originally posted by djshotty
Low complexity audio files are quite small nowadays, so to quickly fire a 100kb *.aac sound bite P2P should be a hell of a lot easier and faster than you lot are making it.
No it is not faster and easier. There are quite a lot more things to it and there are things which Messenger Plus! can not do because how it is designed (eg: not to abuse the Messenger protocol, which can cause a whole array of other problems) and because of its concept. There might be other ways to send Messenger Plus! custom sound files (like Menthix explained) than the method being used now, but please know that such stuff is not as easy as you let it seem to be.

---

Your rant is understanable (nobody likes it when there are constant problems and it doesn't seem to get fixed), but it also shows a bit that you do not know the bigger picture or how things really work in Messenger, as well as in Messenger Plus!. You don't have to understand it all for reporting a problem, but please don't accuse us of giving noobish answers, or worse, implying we don't understand what we're talking about.

Again, there is nothing we can do about it other than hoping they get fixed and explaining why there might be problems. But if you don't like those explanations, then I'm really sorry.

This post was edited on 08-23-2010 at 03:53 AM by CookieRevised.
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08-21-2010 01:50 PM
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Syco
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RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
I love the custom sounds. It's by far my favorite feature. A claim which is supported by the fact that I have 1521 sounds.

I use sounds a lot, all of my friends use sounds a lot. And we are constantly running into problem after problem after problem. Perhaps the reason other people don't have problems is because they don't use sounds that often, or maybe the only use the built in sounds, perhaps they only use the popular sounds. I don't know, but there is definitely a problem with the sound server(s). A problem which has been reported multiple times over the last several months.
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08-22-2010 10:17 PM
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djshotty
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O.P. RE: RE: Sounds Feature for Plus
quote:
Originally posted by Syco
I love the custom sounds. It's by far my favorite feature. A claim which is supported by the fact that I have 1521 sounds.

I use sounds a lot, all of my friends use sounds a lot. And we are constantly running into problem after problem after problem. Perhaps the reason other people don't have problems is because they don't use sounds that often, or maybe the only use the built in sounds, perhaps they only use the popular sounds. I don't know, but there is definitely a problem with the sound server(s). A problem which has been reported multiple times over the last several months.

At last, someone to back up my claims that there are issues with the Sounds.  thanks, Syco, and here's hoping that something is done to set these issues right...

This post was edited on 08-23-2010 at 07:41 AM by djshotty.
08-23-2010 07:41 AM
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