Shoutbox

So to my horror, our display names in WLM are now forced to sync with our profile name. Which is a shitty idea. Besides the obvious privacy issues, the following is what I have sent to Microsoft via the feedback site. I'll repost it here:
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(I'm appalled. You guys put out WLM 2011, yet that option isn’t available under "which version are you running"?)

(NOTE: The above was just complaining about how they don't even list WLM 2011 as an option when giving feedback)

Bring back display names. Now.

Setting the display name to our real names by default is probably the worst idea to ever come out of the WLM team. Display names are much more than just a way for us to be recognised, it's a way to express ourselves. All my friends have phrases/short forms of their names as display names, because it's more PERSONAL this way. That's what makes having custom display names so great, you're interacting with your friends simply by seeing what they've decided to set it as that day.

I'm going to change the name under my profile to whatever I like, making it impossible for others to find me through your social features, which makes your social features unusable. Bring back display names, or just get rid of all your social features, because almost everyone I know won't be putting their full name on there just to get their WLM names right.

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I agree 100%

We need a campaign (facebook?) about this or some sort of resistance

To 'express yourself' you should use the personal message, not your display name.

Other than that I agree with you that removing the possebility to have a display name other than your real name in Messenger (without changing your real name in your profile) is one of the worst decisions they've made.

The official reason behind it is so all the social network (namely Facebook) can now be syncronized better and the names you have across the Windows Live services and other social networks are the same. All in the name of 'to keep things the same/simple'; to make it more easier for the user to manage all the names, so to speak. But instead of fixing the issues on the Windows Live platform regarding different names across the different Windows Live services, they simply decided to remove display names all together and assumed everybody would like everyone else to see their real name.

See:
http://www.liveside.net/main/archive/2010/06/19/w...es-to-go-away.aspx

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_live/b/windows...-your-privacy.aspx
topic: 'Additional privacy and profile changes'

Another argument of theirs is that people would better be recognized when you use their real name. Well newsflash for them: on the internet it is certainly not uncommon to only know a person by his or her handle/nickname and not by their real name!

It speaks for its own that not everybody agrees with these reasons and that their explaination is pretty poor. If you look at the demographics and stats of Messenger, Facebook and other social networks, together with how privacy is percieved around the world, then it is pretty obvious where such a decision comes from imho.

In the US, almost everybody uses Facebook (it is also the most used social network there). There it is also not uncommon to use your real name instead of a nickname and it is not seen as something strange to use your account both for pleasure as for business.

However, in the rest of the world, this is quite different. For instance in Europe, they are a bit more concerned and picky about privacy for instance; A name is seen here more as a private piece of information. And Facebook is not as widespread and using different accounts for pleasure and work is done more frequently.

But a 'problem' with that is that Facebook is designed around the fact that people should use their real name. It is actually against their policy to make a fake account (read: use a fake name) or make more than one account.

Putting all these things together and one can see where such a decision realy comes from and how they seriously made the wrong assumptions, probably governemented by their own social uses and views. But doing something like that for a program which is meant to be used around the globe is in my opinion, stupid and very shortsighted.

Solution should be keeping nickname , but when you hover a contact on the contact list, it would be better to display the Real name of that person (Profile name) as well on conversations

Something like this:

@blackjack

Having a custom nickname feature is not a real solution, in whatever form!

This is not about being able to set a nickname for your contacts though!
This is about your own name and the inability to set a display name for yourself, about the privacy issues it brings with it for some people, about how you are now forced to use a fake name if you do not want everybody to know your real name by simply chatting with you*, etc.. etc...

Again, this is not about the name of your contacts, but about your own name.

* because despite what has officialy been said and claimed, you can _not_ control who sees your real name (last name) or not. And you were _not_ warned before the change took place from display name to real name.

You got me wrong, i mean for the whole thing, Contacts keeping their Nickname but also showing the Real name (as it seems its very important for MS people, lol)

I also am worried about not being able to ''choose'' to keep or not to keep my nickname, im forced to Show my real name

anyway, i have my real name on msn at this time, but its not like its full of strangers that i dont want to see it

quote:

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Originally posted by blackjack
Contacts keeping their Nickname but also showing the Real name (as it seems its very important for MS people, lol)

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cookie did understand And you're still wrong. For me, i dont care really if people see my real name, but it's understandable that someone may not want you to know his real name. Hence the "hover to see real name" doesnt work that well

i still like your idea better than how it is now, but as cookie said, it's not a proper solution

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
To 'express yourself' you should use the personal message, not your display name.

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Well maybe you and your friends/contacts use WLM differently from how I use it. I almost NEVER read my friends' personnel messages, but what I do see are their names when I start a convo with them.

Yes I definitely agree that there's that issue of privacy, but I'm sure the WLM team doesn't really care about that issue. To them, ALL your contacts are friends of yours, so they'd know your name already anyway. That's of course a dumb notion since people trade contacts online all the time.

But I think they dismissed this issue as being unimportant, or else they wouldn't have made such a huge change and removed display names. Thus, I tried to go at another angle when providing feedback, hoping they'd realise how important display names are.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chrono

quote:

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Originally posted by blackjack
Contacts keeping their Nickname but also showing the Real name (as it seems its very important for MS people, lol)

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cookie did understand And you're still wrong. For me, i dont care really if people see my real name, but it's understandable that someone may not want you to know his real name. Hence the "hover to see real name" doesnt work that well

i still like your idea better than how it is now, but as cookie said, it's not a proper solution

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Yes, the idea isn't a solution, but it is a step forward. Currently, there are sliders on your profile settings page that let you set who you want to be able to see your details. If they added "Name" there and allowed us to set it to "No one" or something like that, that'd be fine.

On top of that, bring back display names and implement blackjack's solution. In that case, people who still want others to see their names can set that to be so in their settings page, and when others mouseover his contact, they'll see it. For those who set it otherwise, their name will still be nicely hidden.

PROBLEM SOLVED. MICROSOFT, DO THIS NOW.

quote:

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Originally posted by spvn
Well maybe you and your friends/contacts use WLM differently from how I use it. I almost NEVER read my friends' personnel messages, but what I do see are their names when I start a convo with them.

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We're not talking about how you use it, we're talking about the purpose of it. Your nickname is generally for something short such as 'Chris' for me, then if I wanted to share anything else, that's what the personal message is for.

I know you're still used to the old MSN days when there was no personal message, but that's what it's there for - so you don't have to cram it all into one.

Even if you don't use/read personal messages, with no nickname feature in WLM 2011, you will now, so that's no longer a problem. Use social networks if you want to share stuff (which WLM is now connected with).

If you don't want someone knowing your name, why do you have them as a contact? It's the same thing for Facebook, that has your real name.. so what? Messenger wanted to be connected with social networks such as Facebook chat, and with that it makes sense to use the same name for each.

quote:

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Originally posted by spvn
PROBLEM SOLVED. MICROSOFT, DO THIS NOW.

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It doesn't matter how much you moan or campaign, it's not going to be changed. It has already passed through beta testing - the period of time in which things are changed and tested. It's something you've got to live with and get used to. Same thing happens with every new release and every time we have to say "you'll get used to it" and they do without realising it. It's for the best, I ensure you.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris4
If you don't want someone knowing your name, why do you have them as a contact?

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hu??? Welcome to the internet I'd say.

It is certainly absolutely not uncommon for people to chat with strangers or have 'anonymous' contacts where one only knows the handle/nickname of the contact.

Many people consider their real name as part of their private information, which they only want to share with very close friends and family. And that certainly does not mean you can't chat with other people, which might be your friends but not very close ones.

This has always been so, and will always be so on the internet. If you find that a strange concept, then take a look at every single forum which exists and ask that very same question to every member who didn't fill in their real name in their profile, then do the same for every Twitter member, and any other social network (except for Facebook).

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris4
It's the same thing for Facebook, that has your real name.. so what?

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Nope. Sorry, but it is not the same, see my first post in this thread.

The concept of Facebook is actually very different and unique in that regards. Facebook has been designed from the beginning around the concept to use your real name (it is against their policies to use fake names btw). This is a quite different concept than any other social network or forum on the internet where it is common to use a handle/nickname and keep your real name private. You can view some very interesting papers, studies and videos in regards to this.

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris4
Messenger wanted to be connected with social networks such as Facebook chat, and with that it makes sense to use the same name for each.

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Absolutely not! There is no technical reason at all why people wouldn't be able to still use a display name on Messenger or other Windows Live services. The only reason they did what they did is to make things 'simple'.

Also, and that is repeated over and over again too all over the internet in blogs comments and forums, not everybody uses Facebook. The argument of "on facebook you see the real name too" is very mute in regards to this particular discussion as it assumes everybody uses Facebook and (important too) connects their Windows Live account with their Facebook account (which is again something not everybody does, exactly to keep things seperate. eg: business/pleasure).

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris4
It's something you've got to live with and get used to. Same thing happens with every new release and every time we have to say "you'll get used to it" and they do without realising it. It's for the best, I ensure you.

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This is so not the same as a change in some usebility feature or layout change!!! This is fundamentally and completely very very different, and has nothing to do with "getting used to it".