Shoutbox

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I don't believe that is totaly correct though.

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You could be right, I don't know much about him historically (although I doubt a man like him could ever deserve a Nobel prize). I was talking about the recent years though, when things were escalating.

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Originally posted by Omar
the coran doesnt say "Go out and blow yourself up", neither the torah gives out specific coordinates where the state of israel should be...

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Of course not, but would anyone blow himself up or put his family's well being at risk for a non-crucial piece of land, if it weren't for religion? It's an excuse for psychological things, but it IS an ultimate excuse.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
* Sunshine wonders why religion makes ppl want a certain piece of land...

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Because God said the land of Israel belongs to the Israelites or some b/s like that.


LOL @ Fukafly's post.

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Originally posted by johny
i'm on the palestinian side...but this death will only bring more strength to the israelites(is this the word?)...arafat always maintained some political peace...now who's going to follow him? evbdy knows irsael has a big firepower...if they want they'll crush all of it if they see it's totally uncoordenate

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It's "Israelis" (Israelites is a biblical term). And I can't see how Arafat could maintain a "political peace", seeing as there was none (and as he supports terrorists).

it's not peace by the meaning of the word...it s + like...stablity...who's going to keep the regime(is this the word?) from falling down?...i've said it and i'll repeat it...when Israel wants, KABOOOM (parental advisory content explicit word)...oh btw..in portuguese is israelitas...

I think Arafat's death will mean a bloodshed (sp?) from the different groups within the PLO....

I dont know exact facts, but i guess at least 2 or 3 fellows want the position of Head of the Palestinian movement....

And johny...the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them... (thats the gods honest truth)...

I wonder what will happen if China decides to back the palestinians....*shrugs*

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Originally posted by traxor
all I need to see is one bit of proof, that God is real, and that proof is definitely NOT the bible

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The whole concept of religion is believing. Believing means: knowing something is true without seeing rock solid proof. Otherwise you shift to science. Which is the opposit of religion... Humans can believe whatever they want, and everybody fills in the gaps like they think it has happened, hence there are many different religions.

Religion is not about "proof" at all...

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Originally posted by sock
You could be right, I don't know much about him historically (although I doubt a man like him could ever deserve a Nobel prize).

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Might interest you: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/arafat.html

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Originally posted by sock
I was talking about the recent years though, when things were escalating.

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Yep indeed, after the Camp David treaty (which Arafat refused to sign) things got worse again. But it is not only Arafat's fault though.

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Originally posted by Omar
And johny...the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them... (thats the gods honest truth)...

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yep... Bush and Blair have always supported Israel, no matter what. (This is, btw, again the opposite of what Europe wants; Europe wanted to negotiate with both parties as equals). Even in the Mid-East itself, Palestinia and Arrafat where seen as a independant state and leader and Arafat was treated like that. Only Bush, Blair and Sharon didn't acknowledged him as that (aka: as equals), making the whole peace-process much much more difficult.

Putting aside if someone is a bad person or not, if you don't treat such person as equal (aka: respect him for what he does and believes), how are you going to negotiate with him? Imagine someone ordering you around while saying: "You're the lowest scum in the world and you'll do what we say. Now sign this." Even if the treaty was a good treaty, you will be reluctant to sign it.

Btw, in the long run (few years) there will be a decent peace-treaty. Not because the big bad guy who refused everything, Arafat, is dead. But because the dead of Arafat means that there is nothing to blame anymore for the treaty to fail. Bush knows this also, and thus will do his uppermost best to make this work. Otherwise, if it fails, he (and Sharon) will loose massive, and I mean massive, support from their people and even the world.

Why do you think that Israel now hopes for a less strong leadership in Palestinia?

But before the peace will return, there will be some hard militair actions from extremists who see Arafat as a martyr, though.

And you'll see that once the treaty is passed, that Bush (and Sharon) will say that it worked now because the big bad leader Arafat isn't here anymore. Well, it would have worked in the past also if Sharon had put some water to the wine also.

Anyways, personaly I'm not pro-Arafat or pro-Sharon. Both are equaly bad and both did also good things. They both are as stuburn as a stone. Now that one stone is away, we can only hope for the better...

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Originally posted by Omar
the israelis will have the upperhand until the US stops supporting them

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
yep... Bush and Blair have always supported Israel, no matter what

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...what if think like this?...what if it is a question of pride...'cause that land was offered to them after the ww2...you can't counter-say a measure taken by your country...it'd be a shame for e.g. bush...his popularity would...(stupid theory but has i'm prideful[is this the word?] i can also see it that way...)