Shoutbox

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

To name those that support until now, notice some of them being very respectable users of this forum and are "important members"...
-rafy-, Anubis, jren207, Juzzi, lp15, may73alliance, Melon, Mike2, monster.rat, Penderrin, Purity, Tasha, traxor, ~INVASION~

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There are NO IMPORTANT MEMBERS ...

One man is One man and not more then that, not less then that!
Geez... Juzzi is as much as traxor, as mike2 is as much as -rafy-  and lp15 is as much as anubis...
All this discussion is becoming nonsense, man ur getting paranoic...

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

I just set this up in a few mins... I will have a domain ready during the next few days and the forum will be build properly, I just did a quick setup of the shit... ..
CyBeRDuDe's MsgPlus! Plugins Forum
Anyways, would be nice if I didn't have to do this and host this on my crappy connection... Hopefully I will be able to move it sometime....

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now that IS STUPID...Damn...Are you serious with that?i agree with cookie...

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Hopefully WDZ or Patchou would drop by this thread and see it, comment on it...

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is that your great honor?having patchou viewing ur shitty revolutionary thread?...It's not only patchou who exists in this "Msgplus world", nor dz...they are important pieces, but they dont make a move for themselves!..Bah, do you think anybody would follow patchous decision about this(whatever it would be) ?...I wouldnt, and many wouldnt...Seing ur way of saying things, you would!

[OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by Johny
There are NO IMPORTANT MEMBERS ...

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yes there are... but it is all in the eye of the beholder...

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Originally posted by Johny
All this discussion is becoming nonsense, man ur getting paranoic...

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I disagree... this is (was ) a healthy discussion. No nonsense at all IMHO, because he has strong points and things we all should think about...

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Originally posted by Johny

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Hopefully WDZ or Patchou would drop by this thread and see it, comment on it...

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is that your great honor?having patchou viewing ur shitty revolutionary thread?

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this thread is not revolutionary, but is also certainly not shitty though. And yes, people like WDZ and Patchou and the likes have a very high word on this. Afterall, it is their forum and their word will be final... (until this kind of thread comes around again)
[/OFF TOPIC]

I don't mind if this idea does get implemented or not. I just voted Yes because it sounds like a good idea IMO. And also, this community is equal and so every vote counts, no matter who the voters are, big mods, etc, whatever. This vote probably won't swing any decision anyway, but hey.

ARGH!!! Had just spend well over an hour writing a respond to CookieRevised and Johny, then I accidently clicked the Back button on my mouse and everything disappeared... I'd better have to get to bed now times is almost 3:30 am.. So I'll try writing a new post tomorrow sometime... ARGH!!! ....

even tho i voted its a good idea..it wud still not solve any major problems..those subforums will get trashed sooner or later..and i like the way it is now..T&T is an area where posts dont count..so ppl spam there..so if ur against spam then just look in that area..but i believe most of the activity goes on T&T..

so i dont know its up to forum admins

Nice Cookie... .. You are a man that knows how to "discuss" things and knows what you are talking about... Holy shit this is going to be a long post.. ..
I utterly respect you for bringing this information to me/us...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
[SLITHLY OFFTOPIC]
[FILOSOPHICAL RANT]

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
I know this doesn't make this right, but if such a fair deal of users agreeing on this one then why don't listen the users?... It is thus those people that make sure there is a board, without all these users there would be no reason for a board right? We want democracy...

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tbh, this just remembers me of what happend yesterday in France with the EU constitution voting. With it being a democracy, their was a public poll to vote for or against the constitution. It was decided a major big "nay".... Why? because most of the people voted "no" for the wrong reasons: most people don't even know what's in the constitution or what exactly they voted for and thus instead voted against the France governement...... Just to say that voting is all good and well, _if_ everybody knows what exactly they're voting on, what the implications are, what the big picture is, and not simply voting for an theortical "idea" (aka: it "sounds" good)...

MHO
[/FILOSOPHICAL RANT]

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I get the pciture here... But then you have to get me right in that if people vote "for the wrong thing"(If there is such a thing), then it is beacuse they are not informed correctly.... Like in the french case the people vote for no beacuse they didn't knew better... Then it have to be up to the politicians/"the big people" to inform the others about the options the people have... And of course if they don't get informed correctly then it will of course make the people judge wronmgly on the situation... That is were your post comes in handy... You give us(The yes voters) a reasnoable explanation on this subject... Instead of like others just wasting there time with junk posts and we can't judge from... You give us something to think about...
I am not saying I am wrong about this, but neither am I saying you are wrong... I think you would have a far better view of what is going on "behind the carpet" than I do...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
sorry, but if it's just because you couldn't be arsed, then you shoul set up your own forums and let people register there. this still remains a help forum and plugin threads are tolerated but not part of the core of the forum.

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I just set this up in a few mins... I will have a domain ready during the next few days and the forum will be build properly, I just did a quick setup of the shit... ..CyBeRDuDe's MsgPlus! Plugins ForumAnyways, would be nice if I didn't have to do this and host this on my crappy connection... Hopefully I will be able to move it sometime....

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I hope you aren't serious about this... There are already small plugins forums by various people/members and all they bring is confusion and most importantly incomplete support/listings/info/etc... etc...
[/SLITHLY OFFTOPIC]

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Well.. I don't know if I'm that serious with it.. It was just M_E told me to go set up a forum where people could be with their plugin etc.. And so I did... I might try to do it seriously.. But no one knows yet... I might also give it a try, but then it might not succed big... But who knows.. only time can tell.. You can't blame a man for at least trying... If it works out, then it works out, if not, then it didn't work.. and that's that...
I would like that forum to be more aimed at Plugin Creators/Testers/Idea givers etc... And leave the helping with MsgPlus! etc. to this forum... Just let the plugin creators have their "own corner"....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
But I still can't see why we wouldn't be able to split the Plugins forum in sections/subs?... Just the 3?... Devoloper/Beta Releases, Help/Errors and Requests/Is it possible or something similar..

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better, but still a "no" from me though...

example:
"Devoloper/Beta Releases" and "Help/Errors" is for most plugins just the same and cross postings will be done. It will even be more difficult for mods to decide where some threads must be placed.

eg: somebody makes a plugin and releases a beta, questions come and people start to ask can this be added, that be added, can this change etc... And many times the questions can relate to bugs of the beta or on other times people report bugs but are actually restrictions or faults of their own (see what happens with Plus!). Now where must such threads? in "Help/Errors"? No, because it is about the beta... In "develop/beta"? No, because some are feature requests? etc.. etc...

Many plugin threads blend over all those subforums and in almost all cases, it is muh better "information wise" that such threads are not split over several subforums.

It is only interesting and usefull for big plugins and for plugins where the developper makes clear destinctions between the stages of development (and these are very rare). But those developpers already do that by marking their threads with a clear and decent title fix ([BETA], [vX.X.XXX], [DEVELOPMENT], etc...)

In other words, the subforums will only be interesting and usefull for two or three plugins... For all the countless smaller plugins this subforum thing isn't good and will result in confusion, cross postings, lost information, etc...

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I see... I get the pciture.. And I think I could see the mess... Then it has to do with that the people coming here are "to noob"...
But I am still wondering a bit.. This is THE official msgplus forum!... If there was a place on the net that the plugin creators would have to be it is here... But I feel like the plugin creators are being pushed a bit aside... (not beacuse of this thread, but in general)...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

(text beneath is general, nothing personal to you CyBeRDuDe)

Also, the question should be asked: what is the underlaying cause of your suggestions? You already said yourself that you're tired of searching thru useless, spammy, dublicted, what not threads. Maybe we should fix this first before attempting anything else, and you will already be much more comfortable in the current forum sections.

In other words, redirecting people to the proper earlier threads and posts instead of half replying with some incomplete information which was said somewhere sometime in some other similar thread. Because if you give only half the information, people will make another thread with somewhat the same question or asking a related question because they couldn't find it in the recent thread.

If full info is given or if they come to that recent thread which has the proper redirecting, they don't need to create yet another thread about the same thing... And in the end this will reduce the amount of duplicated/useless/spammy/what not threads. And it will tidy up the forum automatically...

Another important thing (this more to the developpers of plugins) is to update your threads and not create yet another thread about the same thing. eg: "Plugin X v1.2 released" and somewhat later "Plugin X v2.0 released". Because many info in the original thread is also usefull for the update and we all know how much people search for previous info in previous threads.... So instead of making another thread, add another post to the original thread with something like "see first post for update" and update the first post (don't forget to update the title too).

I say this because there are still some people who seem to think that by creating a new thread they get more attention or renewed attention. Well this is just the same when you add a new post to an old thread. Only with one big benefit: the forum isn't cloaked up with similar threads...

Also reporting is important. It is done more and more I think, but still too little. I often see postings telling people they did something wrong, but nothing gets reported, thus, no actions are taken. I mean especially regarding double posting.

So, all in all, if we all do our best a bit more to get the current forums a bit more tiddy, then there wouldn't be a need for (sub)subforums.

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Truely correct...
About the giving correct onformation/links etc... I'm getting tired of posting the same asnwer over and over again.. With links and comments... In the past few days there have been numerous thread about Tabbed Convo, and I always state that I am working on such a plugin, Stuffplug will have it later, and that they can look at your post about the Tabbed Convo subject.. With Link... But the next day I see another thread asking the same god damn question... That is really so annoying... I feel I don't want to asnwer questions anymore... But I feel I need to when people ask about a subject that has to do with one of my plugins etc... But when the same questions get asked and answered almost each day it's just too much....
You said we should try fix the problem with spammy/useless/junk posts/threads before trying to do this... Yes, that might be correct... But that is apparently not possible.. This problem have existed for years here.. And still nothing has changed... The way I see it it all gets worse as each day passes by... If we can't do what I'm suggestion, then we have to do something.. Because something has to change!!!!
We might have to be more strict telling people to use the search forum.. and not to spam etc.... But that doesn't help a bit if we keep on answering the same thread question over and over again with links and all.. Then we would instead have to tell people to use the search function.... But as long as we stand by and post links to each thread that is being posted the people will never change... They get used to that we just answer everything they ask about, even if it has been answered 1000 times before... I am not sure wheter we have a chance of making this better or not... ...
I appriciate you for brining this to my thoughts... Instead of just flamming away as certain other people... ...

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Originally posted by Johny

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

To name those that support until now, notice some of them being very respectable users of this forum and are "important members"...
-rafy-, Anubis, jren207, Juzzi, lp15, may73alliance, Melon, Mike2, monster.rat, Penderrin, Purity, Tasha, traxor, ~INVASION~

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There are NO IMPORTANT MEMBERS ...

One man is One man and not more then that, not less then that!
Geez... Juzzi is as much as traxor, as mike2 is as much as -rafy-  and lp15 is as much as anubis...

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You are right in the sense that "One man is One man"... that person will always be a person no matter what!... BUT I still feel there are certain people on this board that have contributed with more than others...

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Originally posted by Johny
All this discussion is becoming nonsense, man ur getting paranoic...

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Nonsense???... It's not becoming nonsense.. I am just trying to make a difference.. If it doesn't succed, then it doesn't succed, and if it succeds it succeds.. Period, end of story... That has nothing to do wiht paranoic or anything...

quote:

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Originally posted by Johny

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

I just set this up in a few mins... I will have a domain ready during the next few days and the forum will be build properly, I just did a quick setup of the shit... ..
CyBeRDuDe's MsgPlus! Plugins Forum
Anyways, would be nice if I didn't have to do this and host this on my crappy connection... Hopefully I will be able to move it sometime....

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now that IS STUPID...Damn...Are you serious with that?i agree with cookie...

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I'm still just trying to make a difference in this world.. As it seems as certain other people (NOT MENTIONING ANY NAMES) doesn't want to change the future to a better place... My suggestion might be wrong, but you suggest something else that might make this board better???? And yes, I might be serious about my Forum/Board/Page....

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Originally posted by Johny

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Hopefully WDZ or Patchou would drop by this thread and see it, comment on it...

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is that your great honor?having patchou viewing ur shitty revolutionary thread?...It's not only patchou who exists in this "Msgplus world", nor dz...they are important pieces, but they dont make a move for themselves!..Bah, do you think anybody would follow patchous decision about this(whatever it would be) ?...I wouldnt, and many wouldnt...Seing ur way of saying things, you would!

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WDZ and Pathou do have something to say.. They are probably the 2 most important people on this board.. They literaly own this board... So don't come here say they have nothing to say.. If they decide that this suggestion is good, then that's their decission and you can't do shit about it... On the other hand if they don't like the decission then we can't do shit about it...
And yes people would HAVE to follow Patchou or WDZ's decission... They've got no other choice??? Other than leave the board if they are unhappy with the outcome of their decission...
You wouldn't follow patchous's decission?? Then you are kinda out of luck... I would follow, I kinda don't have any choice do I? If I want to stay at this board...
That is like saying the president of the US have nothing to say... You have to obey their decission and rules, and there is not much you can do about it besides trying to make a difference, but you apperently don't ever want to make any difference in your life???.. That is how I see my view on you... (No flaming or harm intended!)...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
[OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by Johny
There are NO IMPORTANT MEMBERS ...

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yes there are... but it is all in the eye of the beholder...

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.. True.. I see a few people as "more important than others"... I know this is not the correct POW, but that is how it is!

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by Johny
All this discussion is becoming nonsense, man ur getting paranoic...

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I disagree... this is (was ) a healthy discussion. No nonsense at all IMHO, because he has strong points and things we all should think about...

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Correct.. I'm just trying to make people think, and I came with a suggestion.. Nothing more, nothing less...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by Johny

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Hopefully WDZ or Patchou would drop by this thread and see it, comment on it...

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is that your great honor?having patchou viewing ur shitty revolutionary thread?

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this thread is not revolutionary, but is also certainly not shitty though. And yes, people like WDZ and Patchou and the likes have a very high word on this. Afterall, it is their forum and their word will be final... (until this kind of thread comes around again)
[/OFF TOPIC]

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As you see... I'm still not sure if this is a bad idea or good idea.. I might see the downsides of it.. But I still have a faith in that it would be possible that it would "fix" up the forums a bit... I just gave my thougths/suggestions.. And then it's up to the "Big guys" to decide wether or not this suggestion should be reality or not?...

I've had the chance to think about this today at work, and I still stand by my point which I said earlier (about the subforums). However, after reading your post, I also could agree on another approach I think, which you also suggested:

Making a subforum for every plugin there is. Because, as you said, they are afterall a main part of Messenger Plus! So this idea will go a bit like on MSNFanatic. But not dividing each plugin subforum into [beta], [release], [help/suggestions], etc... Just simple 1 subforum for each plugin. But all this with a twist. I would like to see the plugins database integrated into the forum. eg:

When people click on the forum "plugins", they see all the plugins (just as in the database) and have the chance to go to the subforum to ask questions, make suggestions, whatever. But they would also see a link to the download of the plugin (this is where the plugin database comes into play as it is now). This link can be in the same list as the subforums, or in the subforum itself (on top or something, dunno)...

Now all this is much work to do (for WDZ mainly), so I have my doubts. Not because he's lazy, but because he needs to find the time as this will take much effort I imagine. Together with this I like to see some things added to the actual plugin database. eg: a link to the plugin's subforum, a link to the official homepage of the plugin (if it exist), and a link to a post (or an extra field) wich contains general info about related plugins!... (eg: all the convo grouping plugins, all the notifiers, all the file send related plugins, etc...)

And last but not least (and this is something the plugin makers can do already), the plugin makers need to mail Fraisie or whoever is in charge of the plugin database and update, or even add!, their stuff.... Because the plugin database is seriously outdated. And this is the responsebility of the plugin makers. Otherwise it would be a full time job to keep the database up-to-date if 1 person needs to constantly roam the forums, and keep track of every plugin development.

So, in short: instead of making subforums like [Help], [suggestions], [releases], etc... make subforums for each plugin. And keep the current plugin forum of course for the general stuff, sumerizes of related plugins, how-to's, etc... just as it is now...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Now all this is much work to do (for WDZ mainly), so I have my doubts. Not because he's lazy, but because he needs to find the time as this will take much effort I imagine. Together with this I like to see some things added to the actual plugin database. eg: a link to the plugin's subforum, a link to the official homepage of the plugin (if it exist), and a link to a post (or an extra field) wich contains general info about related plugins!... (eg: all the convo grouping plugins, all the notifiers, all the file send related plugins, etc...)

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yea thats what I've been thinking about making my own Plugin DB, with a lot more information about plugins, including lists of commands/tags, screenshot, FAQs links to offical websites, etc etc

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I've had the chance to think about this today at work, and I still stand by my point which I said earlier (about the subforums). However, after reading your post, I also could agree on another approach I think, which you also suggested:

Making a subforum for every plugin there is. Because, as you said, they are afterall a main part of Messenger Plus! So this idea will go a bit like on MSNFanatic. But not dividing each plugin subforum into [beta], [release], [help/suggestions], etc... Just simple 1 subforum for each plugin. But all this with a twist. I would like to see the plugins database integrated into the forum. eg:

When people click on the forum "plugins", they see all the plugins (just as in the database) and have the chance to go to the subforum to ask questions, make suggestions, whatever. But they would also see a link to the download of the plugin (this is where the plugin database comes into play as it is now). This link can be in the same list as the subforums, or in the subforum itself (on top or something, dunno)...

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That would also be more than fine.. ..

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Now all this is much work to do (for WDZ mainly), so I have my doubts. Not because he's lazy, but because he needs to find the time as this will take much effort I imagine.

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So true... But maybe he would be able to find someone willing to help him out?... I would if I didn't have so litle sparetime and the sparetime I've got I have to use on my plugins... ...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Together with this I like to see some things added to the actual plugin database. eg: a link to the plugin's subforum, a link to the official homepage of the plugin (if it exist), and a link to a post (or an extra field) wich contains general info about related plugins!... (eg: all the convo grouping plugins, all the notifiers, all the file send related plugins, etc...)

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Yes.. The plugins database definitly needs an update.. Not just by the plugin creators submitting but also in general... The database is so "old" and information less it's not woth using it... It needs to be updated.. To support Screenshots, external links.. etc.. As you said...
This would be a job for Patchou/Or who else runs the MsgPlus.net site and Database?...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And last but not least (and this is something the plugin makers can do already), the plugin makers need to mail Fraisie or whoever is in charge of the plugin database and update, or even add!, their stuff.... Because the plugin database is seriously outdated. And this is the responsebility of the plugin makers.

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True... And really some plugins that are here on the forum should be there... But still some plugins should also not be there... That database is for the world public, and thousands of people visit that everyday(I guess?)... So plugins that are there should be working/stable, and early beta's shouldn't be there.. Well in fact, maybe even NO beta's should be there...
Well.. If we could have the extra links, link to forum, it would make a bigger difference, then it wouldn't matter that much if the plugins are still in beta stage because people can come to the forum and post...
This combined with all plugins having their own Subforum/corner would improve increasingly.... If the users will be linked directly to the plugin's "corner" they would have a better chance of finding what they are looking for... If they see a "forum" dedicated to that particular plugin they are more likely to think that their problem is already stated and talked about, and they would go look for it... I'm not saying that everyone would.. But I think far more people would than they are now...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Otherwise it would be a full time job to keep the database up-to-date if 1 person needs to constantly roam the forums, and keep track of every plugin development.

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Well.. Yes... But who says it needs to be a 1 man job?... In fact I did also request/suggest this before... That we found a few people that have some extra time, some people that we trust in and knows what they are doing.. Maybe also a few "noobs"... But collect a team of people who's job is to roam the forum in search for plugins... Then they should test them, take screenshots, give a short description(from a normal user POW), maybe rate it, group it(What kind of plugin is it), gather some info about it, read the threads about it stating bugs/fixes/how to fix etc, read the creators posts and summarize future/to-do list, known bugs, other informations, maybe write a better readme than the creator(as plugin creators are poor at writing readme's/helps/etc...), they should test the plugin with different options like on different Windows versions, Msn messenger versions, plus! version etc, and then write a compatibilty text for it... All these things should be done by a team... In short this team's job is too ease up the plugin creators job and ease it up for the general users/public... We could call/name this team for instance "The MsgPlus! Plugins Special Forces".. .... If you understand?... This idea would be so awesome.. .. But that would of course require that a few people signed up voluntary and that we have a webpage for this... Maybe someone could build a www.msgplugins.net or www.msgplusplugins.net homepage were all this could be... Were this team opperates... ...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
So, in short: instead of making subforums like [Help], [suggestions], [releases], etc... make subforums for each plugin. And keep the current plugin forum of course for the general stuff, sumerizes of related plugins, how-to's, etc... just as it is now...

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I would certainly LOVE this!!! ...