Shoutbox

Since the forced MSN Messenger update (weekend 4/9-4/12/2004) there is a conflict with Windows messenger and Messenger Plus if MSN Messenger is also installed.

Windows Messenger is the preferred chat client for a variety of reasons.

Although Windows Messenger is the preferred client and is the only one activated in the background - when Windows Messenger is launched (and Messenger Plus is running in the background) Messenger Plus forces MSN Messenger to open which in turn inhibits Windows Messenger opening.

Without Messenger Plus installed or active - Windows Messenger launches appropriately.

In order to get Windows messenger to launch - msgr plus must be inactivated or a 5 step procedure must be followed which includes using task manager to end tasks and raise the application priority of windows messenger.

MSN Messenger could be fully removed from the system - yet it is needed for file transfers at times. (MSN Messenger to Windows Messenger file transfers fail a large percentage of the time.)

Removing Messenger Plus permanently is another possibility - yet the logging chat feature is deeply appreciated when working with others. 

Messenger Plus had been uninstalled and reinstalled.

This was not an issue prior to the latest forced MSN Messenger update.


Messenger Plus!: version 2.54.74 (December 19th 2003)
MSN Messenger: 6.1.0.211
Windows Messenger: 5.0.0482

Win XP Pro (sp 1 and fully patched)

Thank you for all the hard work you do. 

i just deny windows messenger access and i get on with everything fine, i use zone alarm pro firewall so its easy

Why would I deny Windows Messenger access when it is the preferred chat client?

Are you confusing the Messenger service with the IM Chat client native to Windows XP (Windows Messenger)?

First of all Windows Messenger is build in into Windows XP. This doesn't mean it is the preferred chat client. Most users prefer MSN Messenger.

Then, some points to know...

You don't have to use Windows Messenger if you like MSN Messenger more.

Windows Messenger needs to start up before MSN Messenger if you want to use both at the same time with Plus!
This is proberly your problem, by updating MSN Messenger it puts itself into the startup folder and now starts before Windows Messenger and thus will give errors because Windows Messenger is also started, even if you don't know it...

What Fukafly meant was: break the link between Windows XP and Windows Messenger, so that Windows Messenger wont startup any more without you knowing it (believe me it does that) and you wont have problems with it anymore.

To do that you need to hide Windows Messenger. Follow the instructions given here http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=21...d=201175#pid201175 to do just that.

After you've done that, you can choose yourself what program you use: Windows Messenger or MSN Messenger. Furthermore, all function in MSN Messenger will keep working (MSN Messenger uses some functions from Windows Messenger).

But do remember that whenever you use both programs at the same time, you need to startup Windows Messenger first.

Please re-read the original post.

The point made is in *MY* situation - Windows Messenger IS the preferred client. 

The ONLY time MSN Messenger is utilized is when there is a file transfer conflict between Windows Messenger and MSN Messenger customers.  At that point we launch MSN Messenger long enough to complete file transfer then we exit MSN Messenger.

I understand that your main reading audience prefers MSN Messenger - we do NOT prefer MSN Messenger.  It is too cumbersome and does not have some of the features we prefer that are inherent in Windows Messenger.

I have used both programs for years.  There have been zero issues until the latest forced MSN Messenger update. 

This message was intended to give MsgrPlus people a heads up that there is a problem with the current forced MSN Messenger update and the current configuration of Msgr Plus in that is destroys the launch of Windows Messenger.

It was posted with the hope that the MsgrPlus people will issue a patch to fix this new issue. 

I will repeat one more time - I WANT Windows Messenger to launch  - I do NOT want MSN Messenger to launch __until I call upon it__.

MsgrPlus is forcing MSN Messenger to launch INSTEAD of Windows Messenger.  This has been isolated to MsgrPlus and thus, is being posted on these forums.

Once again - do not assume that all of your posters want the configuration you posted.   If we did - we would have followed Jonathan Kay's advice as it is known to be a reliable source.

Thank you once again.

I'm sorry if I read your post wrong then...
It's a misunderstanding of the line "Windows Messenger is the preferred chat client". Since Windows Messenger is build in into Windows XP, I assumed you meant that by saying "preferred" and thus:

Many users who use Windows Messenger, use it because it is build in into Windows and they find it annoying that Windows Messenger is launched by itself at certain times while they use msn messenger. So they're logged out in msn messenger. And thus they use Windows Messenger because they can't fix that beheviour. That's why I suggested to "break" the link (again assuming, you were 'forced' to use windows messenger, but you wanted msn messenger)

btw: I did say *most* users prefer MSN Messenger, I didn't say you nessecairly preferred it.

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
The point made is in *MY* situation - Windows Messenger IS the preferred client.

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Now it is clear... So anyways, I've extensivly tested this beheviour here:
Without any IM running, but Plus! is running, I'll start Windows Messenger...
Result: Windows Messenger starts up nicely, no trace of MSN Messenger...

The only instance when msgplus starts up msn messenger is when you boot up the computer and you've ticked "auto-run messenger when log on to windows" in msn messenger. (because Plus! deletes the msn messenger key in the registry run-tree and replaces it with his own key to ensure Plus! is loaded before msn messenger)

Config:
Win XP home SP1 (fully patched)
Messenger Plus! 2.54.74
MSN Messenger 6.1.0.211
Windows Messenger: 5.0.0482
Link between WinMsgr and Windows broken with MessengerDisable (=option "hide")

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
...we would have followed Jonathan Kay's advice as it is known to be a reliable source...

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Although I know Jonathan Kay and his good advice, the advice he gives concearning "disabling" Windows Messenger isn't exactly the best option. You'll find many solutions on the internet to disable or uninstall Windows Messenger. (inlcuding Jonathan Kay's uninstalling procedure) The thing I gave does not uninstall or disable Windows Messenger. It only breaks the hard link between Windows and Windows Messenger. You can still use Windows Messenger like allways. The only thing that will change is that it will prevent Windows Messenger from secretly running and starting up. (and it prevents the long delay when opening Outlook Express)

Hi,

MSN Messenger was not ticked to start when Windows starts.

Once again - we have used all three of these products for a few years and are fairly familiar with their abilities and weaknesses.

As mentioned before - everything worked well until the latest forced MSN Messenger update.

The systems have been tested with various scenarios to isolate the issue (post MSN Messenger forced update).

At this point in time we have two choices:
A) Uninstall MSN Messenger
B) Uninstall Msgr Plus

A) leads to problems interacting with some customers
B) leads to either using another chat logging application or not being able to log the chats for customer follow-up reference.

At this point in time, MsgrPlus appears to be the culprit.  It appears there was something that the MSN Messenger forced update did that compromised the current build of Msgr Plus.

If Patchou prefers to approach this in the manner you are indicating (they are not seeking what might have broken an otherwise healthy setup) that is Patchou's prerogative. 

Our company is seeking other applications for auto-logging Messenger chats.  Once found, we will discontinue utilizing the Patchou product and will discontinue the recommendation of the product. 

Thank you again.

Did you try to uninstall MSN Messenger, redownload and reinstall?
Same with Plus!, did you tried a reinstall?

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
If Patchou prefers to approach this in the manner you are indicating (they are not seeking what might have broken an otherwise healthy setup) that is Patchou's prerogative.

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You post on this forum, so we give advise as best as we can. Anyway, after the "preferred"-issue was solved, I didn't gave any solution, I only said I couldn't reproduce the bug you have, maybe rereading my post will clear that out...

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
Our company is seeking other applications for auto-logging Messenger chats.  Once found, we will discontinue utilizing the Patchou product

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That's your good right, but...

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
and will discontinue the recommendation of the product.

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That sounds a bit harsh, don't you think?

Good luck finding another product that logs the same way Messenger Plus! logs .

Anyway, I've read your post and I thank you for the very detailed bug report. It's always nice to get such a thing. I will test that within the next 24 hours and I'll post a reply if I find anything.

Patchou

Hi Patchou,

We had utilized other methods of chat logging before being introduced to your product.  They were successful as well.

Your effort to unravel the situation is appreciated - that is what was requested initially.   

The inital post was focused upon either attaining a potential fix/patch or to bring the recent issue to the attention of those working on the product in hopes of resolving the situation. 

The subsequent replies were quite frustrating.  They made irrelevant assumptions, did not address the situation and presented with an intent to lay the blame upon our systems as opposed to a potential (and not uncommon with upgrades) break in an otherwise healthy setup.

We have had other issues with MessengerPlus, yet they were not show stoppers.  We found ways to work around the problems.  We figured that MsgrPlus was a work of art in progress and appreciated the effort. 

We most definitely would not have posted until we had done our own homework and isolated the issues as much as possible.

This is the first time we have made the effort to seek assistance within your forums and as such have walked away severely disappointed.


Hi Cookie -

as stated in the previous posts:

MSN Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Messenger Plus has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Windows Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled.

Various patterns of installation/uninstallation/reinstallation have been followed in order to isolate the problem with the hope of finding a viable solution.

At this point in time - as long as Messenger Plus is installed - Windows Messenger will not launch if MSN Messenger is installed.  MSN Messenger launches instead.

Since we rely upon Windows Messenger this causes unnecessary aggravation and undue loss of time.

re: That sounds a bit harsh, don't you think?

We take pride in our recommendations to others.  We do not recommend products which are not supported. 

Until the post by Patchou - it appeared that this productline did not have a problem resolution oriented support staff.   It appeared that the support personnel did not adequately listen and were prone to making erroneous assumptions.  It appeared that they did not fully research potential bugs and had a tendency to dump blame on endusers.

This is quite frustrating for endusers and ultimately backlashes on us.