Shoutbox

I'm all for this.

A Features & Ideas forum would be nice as well.

as well as dividing up MSN/window messger forum into a genral forum on it, and one for msn help.

I think it's a good idea. It means you can really find info on a plugin that you need instead of reading through thread pages about a plugin that have junk in them or nothing to do with a bug, which annoys me.

to be quite honest, the forum has a search function. use it goddamnit.

allowing spam everywhere sucks.
and dividing the plugin forum is useless since there are like 15 new posts a day in the plugin forum? use the goddamn search if you can't find your post.

and i'm pretty sure it has been suggested before (example)


==> my vote goes to "useless"

quote:

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
to be quite honest, the forum has a search function. use it goddamnit.

allowing spam everywhere sucks.
and dividing the plugin forum is useless since there are like 15 new posts a day in the plugin forum? use the goddamn search if you can't find your post.

and i'm pretty sure it has been suggested before (example)


==> my vote goes to "useless"

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Why is it you can't see the need for this???.. I don't get it!???
Yes, the forum has a search function, but what use is it if new comers don't use that, and instead of looking after a thread about their same problem they just create a new... If we devided it up so problems/help would be in their own subforum it would be MUCH easier for newcomers to see and find there problems... They would just look at the top ten threads and if they find something they can use they read it, if not they post a new thread... but beacuse everything is mixed up into 1 subforum releases, requests, helps etc... The problems will not be in the top list of the subforum and the new comers will never see/notice that the threads are already created...
And how good is a search funtion if i'm looking for a plugin I don't know the name of or function of.. If I'm just looking for plugins to TEST not to USE.. I'm just looking for different plugins and get ideas etc... But with everything mixed up it becomes a pain in the ass to do this... And no you cannot use the Search funtion in this particular case...
Also for plugin creators that wants an idea of what to create.. Why can't there be a Request forum????... All the good ideas that have been proposed during the time of the forum are gone... They are still there, but why do I need to search for the word "Request" or "suggestion" and get 100000 hits because each request/suggestion have 50 replies...???.... It would be much easier and much more userfriendly if we divided things up instead of having everything mixed up into 1 bowl of junk...
Take a look at the msnfanatic forum... It's amazing... I love the way everything is delt in groups and subgroups... and the bigger projects have their own subgroups... Why does everything in this forum have to be into 11 subforums???.. I see no point in that.. This forum is to big for that kinda shit... We need to expand... We are not any longer just a forum that get 10 hits pay day... This is much more major... Why does everything have to stay the same old pile of shit...????... It's useless to spend some quality time around here since there are so many threads about "help me" or request.. And I have to skim that all time ignoring those that look uninterresing for me at the point... I want to be able to if I decide I want to help people, then go help people, if I want to check out releases I go check out release.. the other crap that I have to struggle my way through a lot of useless threads is a pain in the ass...
We all want some changing in this forum... We want people to be nice, we want people to bahave, and we want people to have a good time, then why do we keep haning in the same old "Compact" forum that we did 3 years ago?? (Well ok, 3 years ago the plugin section was not there and properly not some of the others).. But why don't you want to help the forum expand?.. I can't see thi point in that....
And if by a chance you take a look at the poll results you would notice (Even it's not yet a big number, but gives a general idea) that 11 out of 13 people have vote the "BIG YES"... This only shows that i'm not the only one that wants this to happen, and not just a part of the community but a GREAT part of the community agrees with me!... This has to say something!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Yes, the forum has a search function, but what use is it if new comers don't use that, and instead of looking after a thread about their same problem they just create a new... If we devided it up so problems/help would be in their own subforum it would be MUCH easier for newcomers to see and find there problems... They would just look at the top ten threads and if they find something they can use they read it, if not they post a new thread... but beacuse everything is mixed up into 1 subforum releases, requests, helps etc... The problems will not be in the top list of the subforum and the new comers will never see/notice that the threads are already created...

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do you honestly think people who don't search will look in the forum?

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
And how good is a search funtion if i'm looking for a plugin I don't know the name of or function of.. If I'm just looking for plugins to TEST not to USE.. I'm just looking for different plugins and get ideas etc... But with everything mixed up it becomes a pain in the ass to do this... And no you cannot use the Search funtion in this particular case...

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search in msgplus general talk for "suggestion"
holy shit

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Also for plugin creators that wants an idea of what to create.. Why can't there be a Request forum????... All the good ideas that have been proposed during the time of the forum are gone... They are still there, but why do I need to search for the word "Request" or "suggestion" and get 100000 hits because each request/suggestion have 50 replies...???.... It would be much easier and much more userfriendly if we divided things up instead of having everything mixed up into 1 bowl of junk...

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group results by thread, and you have your thing

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
Take a look at the msnfanatic forum... It's amazing... I love the way everything is delt in groups and subgroups... and the bigger projects have their own subgroups... Why does everything in this forum have to be into 11 subforums???.. I see no point in that.. This forum is to big for that kinda shit... We need to expand... We are not any longer just a forum that get 10 hits pay day... This is much more major... Why does everything have to stay the same old pile of shit...????... It's useless to spend some quality time around here since there are so many threads about "help me" or request.. And I have to skim that all time ignoring those that look uninterresing for me at the point... I want to be able to if I decide I want to help people, then go help people, if I want to check out releases I go check out release.. the other crap that I have to struggle my way through a lot of useless threads is a pain in the ass...

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ffs, msnfanatic is a developer's forum, this is a SUPPORT FORUM. msnfanatic HOSTS projects. no wonder they get their own subforum.

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
We all want some changing in this forum... We want people to be nice, we want people to bahave, and we want people to have a good time, then why do we keep haning in the same old "Compact" forum that we did 3 years ago?? (Well ok, 3 years ago the plugin section was not there and properly not some of the others).. But why don't you want to help the forum expand?.. I can't see thi point in that....
And if by a chance you take a look at the poll results you would notice (Even it's not yet a big number, but gives a general idea) that 11 out of 13 people have vote the "BIG YES"... This only shows that i'm not the only one that wants this to happen, and not just a part of the community but a GREAT part of the community agrees with me!... This has to say something!!!

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two out of them code plugins... "this has to say something!!!"

sorry, but if it's just because you couldn't be arsed, then you shoul set up your own forums and let people register there. this still remains a help forum and plugin threads are tolerated but not part of the core of the forum.

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
why do I need to search for the word "Request" or "suggestion" and get 100000 hits because each request/suggestion have 50 replies

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Then search thread titles only

I don't like the idea of dividing the plugin forum that much, unless it's divided like: Plugin development and plugin suggestions(requests).


I would personally like to see a graphics forum.

The inital idea is good, and from some point of view (from the regular member who knows what is where and what should go where) it seems a nice idea and something which will solve many problems...

However.... In practice, even now I constantly report posts which are placed in wrong forums, double threads, and most of all linking to already existing threads. The situatie as it is now, is that people don't search anymore, cba to search, and that even many cba to make proper threads in the proper forums.

Dividing the forums a bit more isn't going to solve this, on the contrary, it is going to get worse. eg: the plugins section: your suggestions of subforums for this is nice, but will not work in practice. Even now, many plugin threads start by a suggestion, evolve into a release of a beta, and end in support for this plugin. Nobody (at least the majority) is going to bother to split this all up. And if they did, many questions or other important info is going to be cross posted. And nobody is going to bother reading 2-3 threads about the same plugin to get info before they ask in a 4th thread... In fact these things (and the not reading of  other related threads) happens right now already.

You gave many examples of what can be done, and in a certain way I like it. But on the other hand they aren't pratical... untill everybody learns how to make proper threads, what to place where, etc... etc...

Your suggestion is excellent for a database kind of thing where only a handfull of people can place stuff in it, not for a major site. You said: look at MSNFanatic, well, there are many, and I mean many, threads in different subsections, yet they are about the same subject... MSNFanatic has exactly the same problems we have here, and they do have all kind of subsections (where, tbh, a n00b wouldn't see the tree in the forest when he visists the first times)

However... all this said... I could see an addition of 1 or 2 new subforums and a decent split up/ordening of the subforums in "Messenger & Technolgoy" though. But this is already heavly discussed before. As for the Messenger Plus! related forums, I think there are more then enough (sub)subforums already, more will only confuse the visitor even more...

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
And if by a chance you take a look at the poll results you would notice (Even it's not yet a big number, but gives a general idea) that 11 out of 13 people have vote the "BIG YES"... This only shows that i'm not the only one that wants this to happen, and not just a part of the community but a GREAT part of the community agrees with me!... This has to say something!!!

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not much tbh (like so many polls) because, and this is going to sound even more arrogant but blah, I wonder how many people of the ones who voted can see the big picture of this and can imagine/know how it will work in practice and understand the full implications of something like this....

Don't get me wrong though, like I said, I like the idea too, if we lived in a perfect world... only in the real world, it will not be practical and isn't going to solve a thing, in fact it is going to make matters worse. It isn't as easy as it looks from the first point of view...

So my vote is:
"I like the theoretical idea, but in practice matters will get worse, so no"

Wow.. Some nice support going on here.. Even some of the "big" guys vote for yes!!! .. ..
To name those that support until now, notice some of them being very respectable users of this forum and are "important members"...
-rafy-, Anubis, jren207, Juzzi, lp15, may73alliance, Melon, Mike2, monster.rat, Penderrin, Purity, Tasha, traxor, ~INVASION~

And those against it:
raceprouk, Tochjo, -dt-


I know this doesn't make this right, but if such a fair deal of users agreeing on this one then why don't listen the users?... It is thus those people that make sure there is a board, without all these users there would be no reason for a board right? We want democracy... (That sentece should properly not have been there...)... Hopefully WDZ or Patchou would drop by this thread and see it, comment on it... .. Maybe someone with more contact to the them could give them a hint to drop by?...

Anyways....

quote:

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
sorry, but if it's just because you couldn't be arsed, then you shoul set up your own forums and let people register there. this still remains a help forum and plugin threads are tolerated but not part of the core of the forum.

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I just set this up in a few mins... I will have a domain ready during the next few days and the forum will be build properly, I just did a quick setup of the shit... ..
CyBeRDuDe's MsgPlus! Plugins Forum
Anyways, would be nice if I didn't have to do this and host this on my crappy connection... Hopefully I will be able to move it sometime....

Edit: I hadn't seen your post...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
The inital idea is good, and from some point of view (from the regular member who knows what is where and what should go where) it seems a nice idea and something which will solve many problems...

However.... In practice, even now I constantly report posts which are placed in wrong forums, double threads, and most of all linking to already existing threads. The situatie as it is now, is that people don't search anymore, cba to search, and that even many cba to make proper threads in the proper forums.

Dividing the forums a bit more isn't going to solve this, on the contrary, it is going to get worse. eg: the plugins section: your suggestions of subforums for this is nice, but will not work in practice. Even now, many plugin threads start by a suggestion, evolve into a release of a beta, and end in support for this plugin. Nobody (at least the majority) is going to bother to split this all up. And if they did, many questions or other important info is going to be cross posted. And nobody is going to bother reading 2-3 threads about the same plugin to get info before they ask in a 4th thread... In fact these things (and the not reading of  other related threads) happens right now already.

You gave many examples of what can be done, and in a certain way I like it. But on the other hand they aren't pratical... untill everybody learns how to make proper threads, what to place where, etc... etc...

Your suggestion is excellent for a database kind of thing where only a handfull of people can place stuff in it, not for a major site. You said: look at MSNFanatic, well, there are many, and I mean many, threads in different subsections, yet they are about the same subject... MSNFanatic has exactly the same problems we have here, and they do have all kind of subsections (where, tbh, a n00b wouldn't see the tree in the forest when he visists the first times)

However... all this said... I could see an addition of 1 or 2 new subforums and a decent split up/ordening of the subforums in "Messenger & Technolgoy" though. But this is already heavly discussed before. As for the Messenger Plus! related forums, I think there are more then enough (sub)subforums already, more will only confuse the visitor even more...

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
And if by a chance you take a look at the poll results you would notice (Even it's not yet a big number, but gives a general idea) that 11 out of 13 people have vote the "BIG YES"... This only shows that i'm not the only one that wants this to happen, and not just a part of the community but a GREAT part of the community agrees with me!... This has to say something!!!

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not much tbh (like so many polls) because, and this is going to sound even more arrogant but blah, I wonder how many people of the ones who voted can see the big picture of this and can imagine/know how it will work in practice and understand the full implications of something like this....

Don't get me wrong though, like I said, I like the idea too, if we lived in a perfect world... only in the real world, it will not be practical and isn't going to solve a thing, in fact it is going to make matters worse. It isn't as easy as it looks from the first point of view...

So my vote is:
"I like the theoretical idea, but in practice matters will get worse, so no"

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See this is the answer I was hoping(not hoping) to get... This has information in it, and explains why it should not in a reasonable manners... ...
But I still can't see why we wouldn't be able to split the Plugins forum in sections/subs?... Just the 3?... Devoloper/Beta Releases(With the additonal text "This forum is not for Helping questions), Help/Errors etc(With the additional text "Here you can ask the community about your problems with a specific plugin etc..") and Requests/Is it possible(With the additional text "This is not intended for requests on extra features to a plugin but requests for the plugin creators to create a specific plugin, and to ask weather your idea is possible or not").. Or something similar..
You are correct that making lots of subs probably won't do good.. But I really think it would help SOOO much to just split a few of them in a few subs...

[SLITHLY OFFTOPIC]
[FILOSOPHICAL RANT]

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
I know this doesn't make this right, but if such a fair deal of users agreeing on this one then why don't listen the users?... It is thus those people that make sure there is a board, without all these users there would be no reason for a board right? We want democracy...

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tbh, this just remembers me of what happend yesterday in France with the EU constitution voting. With it being a democracy, their was a public poll to vote for or against the constitution. It was decided a major big "nay".... Why? because most of the people voted "no" for the wrong reasons: most people don't even know what's in the constitution or what exactly they voted for and thus instead voted against the France governement...... Just to say that voting is all good and well, _if_ everybody knows what exactly they're voting on, what the implications are, what the big picture is, and not simply voting for an theortical "idea" (aka: it "sounds" good)...

MHO
[/FILOSOPHICAL RANT]

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)

quote:

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
sorry, but if it's just because you couldn't be arsed, then you shoul set up your own forums and let people register there. this still remains a help forum and plugin threads are tolerated but not part of the core of the forum.

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I just set this up in a few mins... I will have a domain ready during the next few days and the forum will be build properly, I just did a quick setup of the shit... ..CyBeRDuDe's MsgPlus! Plugins ForumAnyways, would be nice if I didn't have to do this and host this on my crappy connection... Hopefully I will be able to move it sometime....

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I hope you aren't serious about this... There are already small plugins forums by various people/members and all they bring is confusion and most importantly incomplete support/listings/info/etc... etc...

[/SLITHLY OFFTOPIC]

quote:

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Originally posted by (CyBeRDuDe)
But I still can't see why we wouldn't be able to split the Plugins forum in sections/subs?... Just the 3?... Devoloper/Beta Releases, Help/Errors and Requests/Is it possible or something similar..

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better, but still a "no" from me though...

example:
"Devoloper/Beta Releases" and "Help/Errors" is for most plugins just the same and cross postings will be done. It will even be more difficult for mods to decide where some threads must be placed.

eg: somebody makes a plugin and releases a beta, questions come and people start to ask can this be added, that be added, can this change etc... And many times the questions can relate to bugs of the beta or on other times people report bugs but are actually restrictions or faults of their own (see what happens with Plus!). Now where must such threads? in "Help/Errors"? No, because it is about the beta... In "develop/beta"? No, because some are feature requests? etc.. etc...

Many plugin threads blend over all those subforums and in almost all cases, it is muh better "information wise" that such threads are not split over several subforums.

It is only interesting and usefull for big plugins and for plugins where the developper makes clear destinctions between the stages of development (and these are very rare). But those developpers already do that by marking their threads with a clear and decent title fix ([BETA], [vX.X.XXX], [DEVELOPMENT], etc...)

In other words, the subforums will only be interesting and usefull for two or three plugins... For all the countless smaller plugins this subforum thing isn't good and will result in confusion, cross postings, lost information, etc...

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(text beneath is general, nothing personal to you CyBeRDuDe)

Also, the question should be asked: what is the underlaying cause of your suggestions? You already said yourself that you're tired of searching thru useless, spammy, dublicted, what not threads. Maybe we should fix this first before attempting anything else, and you will already be much more comfortable in the current forum sections.

In other words, redirecting people to the proper earlier threads and posts instead of half replying with some incomplete information which was said somewhere sometime in some other similar thread. Because if you give only half the information, people will make another thread with somewhat the same question or asking a related question because they couldn't find it in the recent thread.

If full info is given or if they come to that recent thread which has the proper redirecting, they don't need to create yet another thread about the same thing... And in the end this will reduce the amount of duplicated/useless/spammy/what not threads. And it will tidy up the forum automatically...

Another important thing (this more to the developpers of plugins) is to update your threads and not create yet another thread about the same thing. eg: "Plugin X v1.2 released" and somewhat later "Plugin X v2.0 released". Because many info in the original thread is also usefull for the update and we all know how much people search for previous info in previous threads.... So instead of making another thread, add another post to the original thread with something like "see first post for update" and update the first post (don't forget to update the title too).

I say this because there are still some people who seem to think that by creating a new thread they get more attention or renewed attention. Well this is just the same when you add a new post to an old thread. Only with one big benefit: the forum isn't cloaked up with similar threads...

Also reporting is important. It is done more and more I think, but still too little. I often see postings telling people they did something wrong, but nothing gets reported, thus, no actions are taken. I mean especially regarding double posting.

So, all in all, if we all do our best a bit more to get the current forums a bit more tiddy, then there wouldn't be a need for (sub)subforums.