Shoutbox

its not just the veil though, its that multiculturalism is becoming harder, and the veil isnt helping muslims blend in.

im just watching an interview with veiled women on bbc1 atm... ill add my comments after hearing the other side.

edit: this isnt to be taken the wrong way, but just watching the interview is weird for me, it like a dubbed film because you cant see anything other than their eyes.

EDIT: i have been taking media studies, and it is a lot analysing news papers and the effects of media.... muslims get slated regularly in the media. for example there was an article about a possibility of a mosque being built in a prison costing a few million.... the headline wasnt mosque finally built for muslim inmates, it was hooked muslims gets his own way... or something like that. the whole thing is  giant mind fuck that is being blown up by the media.

I think he's right. I also think he shouldn't have had to apologise. But I also think that in the grand scheme of things, if they (muslim women) want to wear one, then we (the non muslim women) should be allowed to pass comment on it without fear of being branded a "racist" or general "enemy of Islam" or whatever. I think that they shouldn't have to remove, but the community as a whole needs to be more relaxed about different things in this country, after all, Islam isn't the official religion.

But you don't go into a business meeting a wearing a hat, do you?

Don't mind them wearing it whilst there 'out 'n' about' but they could be more *polite* about it in other places.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

---

well said

quote:

---

Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

---

I would love to be able to get my point across as well as you did in that post .

Truth be told, I think we're just becoming too soft because of the influx of multicultural people we're getting to this country. Besides this *is* a mainly Christian-based country and has been for hundreds of years, so we're not going to be expected to change our views on these things overnight, especially in the older politicians as this is the way things were back when they were growing up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by andrewdodd13
Besides this *is* a mainly Christian-based country

---

Legally, not just mainly.

I agree that muslim women should have to take off their head vails while we talk to them etc. because it's just rude if they don't. They way you acknowledge people is by their facial expressions etc.

The whole "crucifix" and the jewish cap arguments are stupid, you do not need to remove those as they do not block anything which prevents you from seeing if somebody is telling the truth or speaking positively etc.

My mum, dad and brother got in a huge argument over this with my sister-in-law and she just wouldn't listen to anybody.

A policeman should have the right to say, "remove your headscarf now." it's not racist, it's just common sense.

Time makes a good point and I personally think that Jack straw was right in saying what he did.

So frozendaggers, just read all of your posts, you seem pretty knowledgable about the whole situation.

Situation:
Mans walks into a bank wearing a bicycle helmet which covers his face but not his eyes, he's potentially dangerous and could be using it to cover his face so that he will not be seen by cameras. Yet if a muslim woman walks in with her face covered, it's not dangerous, it's just their religion.

People are thinking about safety etc.

The ministry of defence even had an advert once about how we should be able to see peoples faces, they walked up to some taliban people, and they were ready to attack, but as soon as the man took off his sunglasses, they backed down and acknowledged him. People acknowledge with their eyes and the rest of their faces, if we can't see this then it's just wrong.

The way you're saying "we get to wear a crucifix" is idiotic, we can hide the crucifix by putting it under our top, we don't usually walk around with it showing to everyone (not that this matters, as this is about communication), whereas if there are people wearing garments that purpously cover the face, it's intimidating and should be banned.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

---

The policeman statement is utter rubbish, the reason policeman wear their uniform is so that they're easily recognisable and for protection. Never once have I spoken to a policeman with his hat one, whenever they speak to me they always politely take off their hats/helmets and then speak to me.

Also, they're officers of the law, they're made to wear these by the government, whereas the head garments are not necessary and possibly dangerous. Especially in times such as these.

Jack Straw is my favourite politician at the moment, simply because he's making a stand when no other politician has the guts to.

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

---

The policeman statement is utter rubbish, the reason policeman wear their uniform is so that they're easily recognisable and for protection. Never once have I spoken to a policeman with his hat one, whenever they speak to me they always politely take off their hats/helmets and then speak to me.

---

I got it out a book by Banksy. Blame him. Plus, I was just on about the hats. Not the rest of the uniform, and no policemen I've known who's questioned me has taken off thier hat...

Also; Sure they should abide by our rules but meh, this is supposed to be a multicultural country, respecting other people from different races and religions. Don't you think it's about time people should start treating different religions and such with a bit more respect... now, you're probably going to turn round and say, "well they should respect us by taking it off", but why should they? Okay so confrences and stuff, maybe they should just where the average headscarf instead of the whole Burkah, but it isn't very often that you get people wearing the whole Burkah anyway.