Shoutbox

quote:

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
"It is by no means as easy as you think. Ampersand collision checking is very complex. Even checking if an ampersand is missing or not is very complex."

I never protested against that. In fact, I said that I didn't know whether or not the feature could be programmed.

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I'm not saying you've said that it is dead-easy though... My post was meant in general, to read by others also, nothing personal.

btw, such thing can be programmed though (like everything else), but it is complex and will need consant tweaking and updating by its nature...

quote:

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
"Such a feature is not to be taken as granted. Human control and interpretation IS needed."

I never asserted that human control wasn't needed. In fact, I said that it would not make errors disappear.

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yep true. But what I mean and warn for is that, in practice, most people start to blindly trust on those automatic tools if they exist. A very nice example of what I mean: the many PC-tweak, registry scheck, anti-adware tools.

quote:

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
You're asserting that translations made with the translator are always faulty?

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not alyways, but very very often, yes indeed...

In fact, I even bet most of the translation for the 3.50 version have a fault in them if they are checked only with Choli's tool to see if every key has been translated!! Because there is an error in the original English file. This can only be picked out if the translator has painstakenly checked every key, its purpose, its length and its place (like every translator is supposed to do anyways!!!)...

The point is: The tool is a very excellent and fine piece of program. But it has to be used for what it is and for what it can do. And that is only a very very small part in the whole translation process. Unfortunatly, many (new/lazy) translators turn this around, and the tool becomes a very big part of the translation process....

quote:

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
But many of these lazy translators will do poor translations no matter what method they use.

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yeah, you got a very good point there....

quote:

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
If the translator pays attention, Choli's translator will be as useful as the method you're currently defending, even though no one (no one here, at least) has attacked it. It shows the same things as the textfile-method contains.

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It's not a matter of defending one method to the other. Using Choli's program is NOT a method. It is PART of a much bigger process...

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quote:

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Originally posted by ZrednaZ
Umm, I think you may have misunderstood my (somewhat unclearly phrased) sentence regarding this... I didn't mean that specific ampersand placement within a sentance is the same in other languages as in English (you would obviously get collisions all the time by doing this). All I'm saying is: Every time there is a & in any English key, there's supposed to be one in the translated key as well and vice versa (unless you discover some obvious mistake by Patchou).  Am I completely mistaken here?

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yep, I'm afraid you are...

* In many keys, the ampersand IS a valid character and NOT a special sign to make hotlinked-letters.
* In some keys, the ampersand will result in a hotlinked letter, but in fact, can't be used.
* You also need to take in account that spelling errors can happen in the English file (but this is more a matter of interpreting the computed comparrison result. Although this is quite often were the problem/danger of the use of such tools is!)
* etc...

So you're back to square one. Each and every key NEEDS to be indexed, indentified and updated for each build as keys often are replaced, moved, fixed, etc...

quote:

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Originally posted by ZrednaZ
I know your program doesn't reproduce Plus!' internal line breaks, but at least it gives you an idea of how long your text is getting compared to the original!

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I'm realy afraid not!
It is quite often that I come across much shorter lines in characters, but the final result will still be a too big text in the dialogs (and this without taking in account line breaks)!!!! The same goes for the opposite: In the Dutch translation there are also many lines which are much longer, yet produce a nice looking and sometimes even shorter output!

The character count is not something to take in account, even not a little bit, it is nothing more then a gimmick...

quote:

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Originally posted by ZrednaZ
Something you can't determine _at all_ in notepad! I realize that the need for double checking afterwards in Plus! is present using both methods, but that doesn't automatically make Notepad a better choice.

Using Choli's translator:
*Easy, comfortable translation tool with a nice font.
*Most of your translated text will fit in Plus!' confined spaces, as you saw to it that your translated texts remained shorter than the originals in Choli's program.

Using Notepad:
*Less comfortable tool. Risk of selecting a buch of keys and deleting them (at least it happens 4 me sometimes )
*More translated text won't fit Plus! since you had no idea of how much space you were consuming.

Ok, are we clear now?

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Nope.... again I am not defending or arguing between two different methods!!!!!

There is NO such thing as "Choli's translator"-method and "notepad"-method.

Choli's translator is a small tool to aid in the much much bigger translation process, it is NOT a method on its own, it is only a small part of the process that a translator must do!!!!

this includes:
* the use of dictionanaries, thesaurus, etc...
* spellchecking
* manual tweaking of the INI file
* checking for ampersand collisions
* checking if lines aren't too long
* yes, even checking if final results _look_ good (the visual aspect counts too and is very important)...
* testing when an error occures and thus how to translate it (don't blindly trust on the English translation)
* checking consistency within the translation and with other Windows products
* checking for 'technical' mistakes (eg: double spaces)
* checking if keys/sections aren't misplaced (yes, even in the English one this happens!!!)
* checking if everything is translated (and THIS is were Choli's tool comes in)
* etc...
* etc...

Remark: The literal job of 'translating' is only a small part of the entire process. This is also one of the mistakes that people make when they are going to translate something (realy talking in general now, eg: the difference between translating a piece of text in school and translating a computer program).

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btw, I realy hate to "disagree" with you people (the regular pro-translators), what I'm saying here goes more for the new/lazy/newbie/unaware translator.  So don't take all this personaly