Shoutbox

This is by far the most confusing/chaotic round of translation so far. Why are y'all constantly releasing new versions and updating the change log?

Right now, the most recent change log seems to be 681, but we haven't received an e-mail about this change. All the file names of downloadable beta setups and change logs are identical, so it's easy to get them confused - and if you forget to delete your browser cache before downloading the change log/setup file, Lord have mercy on your soul, because you may find yourself working on old data.

To add to the confusion, I downloaded a change log yesterday where this:
[Window.AboutBox]
LblTestersFriends        removed
LblCredits            added
LblInterfaceDesign        removed

was under the section "Changes between Build5 676 - 677". In today's change log, however, the above changes have been moved to another section: "Changes between Build5 677 - 681". How confusing is that?

I suggest that you guys at Yuna take a deep breath and relax whenever you feel tempted to update the files downloadable by us translators. As far as I recall, it has never in the past been necessary to update stuff this often.

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Originally posted by ZrednaZ
This is by far the most confusing/chaotic round of translation so far. Why are y'all constantly releasing new versions and updating the change log?

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agreed

i think the safer way is to upload a different changelog for each build, i know it may be a bit inconvenient to access different urls to download the changes, but it'd be more clear and they wouldnt be tempted to mess with previous changelogs.

Also, they are clearly not taking note of all the changes, which is annoying, people at yuna should be more careful about that too.

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Originally posted by NapalmLos
consider simply attaching each change log as a file

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Sunshine told me that she cant attach files to the emails sent by the system.



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im not sure if anyone will notice this thread being in the translations forum, maybe you should email the link to sunshine just in case (and to see if she can do something about it)

Tip: Whenever you download a change log, simply add the appropiate build number and date to its name yourself.

Do the same for the setups, and even for the default translation files themselfs!!!

In that way you can very easily keep track of changes, even changes which might not have been listed in the change logs (and that happened with Plus!3 and 4 also on a regulary basis btw; this is nothing new with Yuna... Patchou forgot to include some keys and even listed some wrong ones in the past too).

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Originally posted by Chrono
Also, they are clearly not taking note of all the changes, which is annoying, people at yuna should be more careful about that too.

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Do you have any example of entries we'd have forgotten?

Right now im not sure, at some point some of the keys that were missing:

CompatibilityLevel            changed

[Window.ContactList]
MenuPlusFeatures            added
MenuGuidedTour                changed

[RecordedEvents]
UploadSuccess                deleted
MyPlusDuplicatesErr            changes
MyPlusInvalidDateFormat            added

[LogFiles]
FacebookFileName            added
Facebook                added

[Window.LogViewer]
UploadSuccess                added
FileAccessDenied            changed

[Window.Pref.Passwords]
LblLPDesc                changed

[Window.Pref.PwdMyPlus]
LblMyPlusNewAcc                changed
MyPlusAccountNeeded            changed
MyPlusPasswordNeeded            changed

[Window.ContactListCommandHelper]
HelpExit                added
HelpClose                deleted

[Window.ConfigWizard]
WizardLockMsg                added
LbltxtGuidedTour            changed

[Window.Pref.AppearMessenger]
HlpChkAllowPromotions            changed

You may probably want to ask choli, he's the one who found those out at the beginning
You just cant miss out so many strings /slap

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Tip: Whenever you download a change log, simply add the appropiate build number and date to its name yourself.

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i do that, it doesnt mean they cant do it as he suggested though Why make things harder?

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
this is nothing new with Yuna... Patchou forgot to include some keys and even listed some wrong ones in the past too).

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True, but somehow i expect them to do it properly now that there's a bunch of people working on the project i mean a few mistakes is understandable, that's why this thread exists, the point is that they can learn from it.

Ok, this is something has burned myself out and annoyed me quite a lot.

First of all, the names of the files: If all the files are named the same (ie: MsgPlus5BetaSetup.exe and translation_changes-4382-5.txt), of course we have to rename it when we download them; otherwise it'd be nearly impossible to control them. However that doesn't eliminate the problem with the cache. So, Yuna, is it so difficult to upload the files with a diferent name for each build?

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Originally posted by Chrono
You may probably want to ask choli, he's the one who found those out at the beginning

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True.

This will be 'hard' to read for Yuna, but it's the truth: Translation changelogs for Plus 5.0 have been the worst changelogs ever. They aren't acccurate enough so you can trust them when translating. Comparing 2 translation files isn't difficult, is it? Just as a note: It took me only 5 minutes to do a script in perl that compares 2 translations and outputs the report of changed, added and removed keys and sections. Can't Yuna do this?

Oh, and another thing: WTF is this thing of beta testing at the same time of translating?! Let me explain: at the begining of the beta testing stage, many bugs come up, and it is normal that there are lots of changes in the software. It translators are doing their job at the same time, it is very likely that they have to translate again changed texts each time a new build is released. The translation phase should have started near the end of the beta testing stage, as it has happened always. Yes, I know there are milestones and release dates and all that stuff, but the software is already delayed... couldn't it have been delayed a bit more and that way Yuna can get better translations? Also, note that several translator are also beta testers. In my case, I couldn't do nearly any betatesting due to I was translating at the same time.

I think it's enough for now. I could say more things, but I prefer Yuna to take note of this issues and not repeat them for the next time.

edit: and I fully agree with Chrono and Apatik

Okay so I just checked the "missing" entries pasted by Chrono and all of them are either typos/caps changes (that I don't believe need translating at all, but is still there for comprehensiveness), or stuff that has changed between 673 and 674. These latter strings (most of them anyway) were marked as such (added/changed/whatever in 674) in the changelog, though it was admittedly confusing and has been reported to Sunshine. Then we started making separate sections to list changes for separate builds, and bumped the modified entries, as well as some new (a few) ones, into the 674 section.

About the changelog filename, I agree we could/should make different changelogs for different builds, but then again we would get complains because there would be too many files to manage.

To answer the O.P., I have to ask : are you checking everyday for a new changelog/new build? What's the issue if you didn't get an email (yet, the mail was sent this morning) about a new changelog? Do you take note of what you've worked on? We may not be helping, and I know everyone has their own way to get the work done, but it seems to me you're kinda confusing yourself here.

The changes in the aboutbox were bumped to 681 in case some of the translators missed them in 677. If you already translated it, what's the big issue?

Lastly, and I'll be speaking as a translator here, I also find it quite annoying to have to work on something that's not final and constantly updated. I don't find it that confusing though, but that may be because I *know* what has changed and what hasn't... To a certain extent. To another extent, I'm really just like you when facing the constant changelog updates and whatnot. And I'll give you this can be rather irritating

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Originally posted by Apatik
I also find it quite annoying to have to work on something that's not final and constantly updated

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Yep. That's something I've also complained about to Yuna...

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Originally posted by Apatik

About the changelog filename, I agree we could/should make different changelogs for different builds, but then again we would get complains because there would be too many files to manage.

To answer the O.P., I have to ask : are you checking everyday for a new changelog/new build? What's the issue if you didn't get an email (yet, the mail was sent this morning) about a new changelog? Do you take note of what you've worked on? We may not be helping, and I know everyone has their own way to get the work done, but it seems to me you're kinda confusing yourself here.

The changes in the aboutbox were bumped to 681 in case some of the translators missed them in 677. If you already translated it, what's the big issue?

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I'm not asking you to make new changelogs for every release. By all means keep adding new changes to the top of the current one. What you need to do, however, is change the filename to reflect the latest change.


No, I'm not checking every day for a new build. When the e-mail about release 677 came out, I downloaded the changelog and beta file at once, then translated it and handed it in on Wednesday (the deadline). However, just after turning in my 677 translation, another Danish translator informed me that he had just downloaded the change log and found that 681 was now the newest version. Of course I was annoyed about this when I had just handed in my 677, which was apparently already obsolete.

And as of today, the newest version in the changelog seems to be - once again - 677 (even after deleing my cache!). What happened to 681?

So no, I wouldn't attribute my confusion to incompetence on my part. I've been doing this since 2002 and never had a problem before.

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Originally posted by ZrednaZ
Right now, the most recent change log seems to be 681, but we haven't received an e-mail about this change.

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Zrednaz, might it be that you are not in the translators email listing? I send out an email on every refresh. Can you shoot me an email?

Cornelia Koopmans (Sunshine)
Community Beta Testing & Translation Coordinator
Kimahri Software
corneliak@kimahrisoftware.com