Shoutbox

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And that is the exact problem. A script should not be fixed to include all kinds of random things other people come up with to start their commands.

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I believe the !command (wasn't that adviced at some point?) has become common just as the /command, that's why i asked to consider ignoring sentences starting with those (and by further reading i found the / can't be used in all cases) in message formatting scripts. We can't stop ppl making scripts with whatever fantasy command, but i think it would be wise to have standards for what is an acceptable command start and what isn't. Afterall you can't expect scripters to rule out every possible beginning...just the two common ones should do.

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There should not be !commands, ^commands, $commands, commands ending with "!", etc. Commands should always start with "/", as Menthix said.

The scripts which use anything other than /commands without any proper need should be fixed, not the scripts which only interpret /commands.

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I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

Let's look at it from another way/other possible solution (wich i thought of first before the ignoring certain chars in scripts):
If ! is used to start a command, is it possible to ignore any formatting before that? I fear that will be a problem as a sentence can also end with an ! I have done some testing with formatcodes and /commands (put in format tag, type command), this results in the command not beeing executed aswell. Now if all commands would start with / can formatting be ignored if put infront of that (regardless wether or not this was put in manually as i did)? If that is possible we end with the problem what if all add-ons could use /commands and two add-ons want the exact same one?

Confusing huh, but that's how i came to ask what i asked inhere.

I agree totally with Cookie, hence why I haven't already added this support.  I do not want to make it easy on people to make scripts using !commands and try to force them to use the proper /commands.  I see no point in Now Playing using !commands and for the likes of mocker, if the person has plus the they just need to put "/text /command" or they need "//command" and for mocker to remove format codes an this is the way it should b done because it is the exception and is the one who is making it hard.  All other scripts _don't_ need to use !commands.  Furthermore, I will make a script to fix the problems with StuffPlug so there is no conflict with these formatting scripts until TB works out something better.

I will update this post later with the StuffPlug fix.

EDIT: Please find the temporary fix attached.  I have made it so that you can add more exceptions as well, just add to the exceptions array.

EDIT2: fixed the file so it can be added to plus, there was a problem with the script info file

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Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands

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I use them for the remote commands, they are not parsed locally, they are only parsed when a contact sends them to you. You cant use "/" in that situation because plus parsers it and will say "invalid command".
Scripts should use ! or . or something other than / when it comes to remote commands, who in their right mind would want to do //np when its easier (and looks better) to do !np

Using "/" for remote commands is one of the silliest things I've ever heard of. Local commands should always be "/" and there isn't much of a standard for remote, but most of the time it's either "!" or ".".

Either way, using "/" for remote commands is an absurd idea and goes against what most people are used to.

I guess that is valid, but it's not hard to remove the formatting either.  I will make the exception in the next version of Message Customizer! Live, but I also would like to see other developers who are including remote commands in their script to just remove the format codes to find the command, it is just as easy for this as it is for me to adjust my script (assuming they have written their script reasonably well).

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Originally posted by Sunshine

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And that is the exact problem. A script should not be fixed to include all kinds of random things other people come up with to start their commands.

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I believe the !command (wasn't that adviced at some point?) has become common just as the /command

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It certainly never was recommended. On the contrary, it is adviced not to use "!" commands (or anything else) and use the proper "/" syntaxis.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
(and by further reading i found the / can't be used in all cases)

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It can in all cases where commands are used to trigger something in a script you're running though. There is no reason why it can't.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
i think it would be wise to have standards for what is an acceptable command start and what isn't.

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There is A command starts with "/".

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Afterall you can't expect scripters to rule out every possible beginning...just the two common ones should do.

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There is no "two common ones" though. There is only 1...

The fact that some scripts use "!" (for local stuff) has everything todo with people not knowing how to script commands properly and not knowing that simply adding  return ''  to the  SendMessage event  is all it takes to not have that Plus! message "command is not reconized". And people copy-catting others, instead of reading the documentation first...

In other words, that is not how a 'standard' is defined, or not how it should be. But exactly what 'not following standards' means.

'not following standards' shouldn't become the 'standard'.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

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But that will not be solved by saying that "!" commands are commands too; The problem will still be there.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Let's look at it from another way/other possible solution (wich i thought of first before the ignoring certain chars in scripts):
If ! is used to start a command, is it possible to ignore any formatting before that? I fear that will be a problem as a sentence can also end with an ! I have done some testing with formatcodes and /commands (put in format tag, type command), this results in the command not beeing executed aswell. Now if all commands would start with / can formatting be ignored if put infront of that (regardless wether or not this was put in manually as i did)? If that is possible we end with the problem what if all add-ons could use /commands and two add-ons want the exact same one?

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Nope...

Commands start with "/", nothing else, not even formatting codes, since those codes are simply text too...

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Originally posted by -dt-
who in their right mind would want to do //np when its easier (and looks better) to do !np

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tbh, "//" is more logic than "!" "." or whatever else, since you can say that remote commands are commands too...

However, there is something to say about "!" commands too, but only in context of remote commands. But scripts which use "!" remote commands should deal with them as if they were text, not as if they were commands (aka: take in account possible formatting and thus don't assume a remote command will always starts with "!").

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Originally posted by ddunk
what most people are used to.

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And how did they become use to it? --->

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Originally posted by markee
(assuming they have written their script reasonably well).

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exactly...

by bad written scripts...

And thus good written scripts should adapt and be fixed? I totally do not agree with this...

MHO

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PS: It is not StuffPlug which is the cause of this or whatever. The problem existed long before, but was simply ignored by many people, eventhough it has been requested multiple times to them to change their commands into proper commands. I'm not into forcing standards upon people, but standards are there for a reason. Even if it might not be clear at first why they are there.

EDIT:

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Originally posted by NanaFreak
COOKIE OWNS YOU ALL!!!

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nope, I just have a strong opinion about things like this

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Originally posted by Sunshine
I agree there should be one unified start of commands, but i do fear that will lead to problems too (what if two add-ons use the exact same command?)

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an easy way around this is to have your command like "/mcabout" (a Message Customizer! Live command, this command displays the about window) where the command starts with a few letters of the scripts name then what it does.


COOKIE OWNS YOU ALL!!!

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by markee
(assuming they have written their script reasonably well).

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exactly...

by bad written scripts...

And so, good written scripts should adapt and be fixed? I totally do not agree with this...

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What I meant by that is a well written script can quite easily be modified to accept a remote command even if it has text formatting where it is harder for poorly written scripts.  It is just my opinion that these scripters should also allow for this so users whose contacts use a text formatting script that isn't going to be modified for this can also still have the remote commands able to be used (sorry for it being so long but I couldn't think of a better way of explaining it).

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Originally posted by markee
Furthermore, I will make a script to fix the problems with StuffPlug so there is no conflict with these formatting scripts until TB works out something better.

EDIT: Please find the temporary fix attached.  I have made it so that you can add more exceptions as well, just add to the exceptions array.

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"The file you tried to load does not appear to be a valid Messenger Plus! script pack"

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Aslong as another add-on can't use the / for commands without Plus! intercepting it first and giving errormessages (not a valid command error...then aborts the command, wich i believe is the main problem here) i fear the only way to make things work seamlessly with eachother is to accept the fact that !commands exist as a "widely" accepted command, with adjusting message formatting scripts accordingly (wich is by far easier than have another script or add-on ignore anything before the !, wich i think is impossible tbh).

It is in my eyes a better solution than having to look for the well known needle in the haystack if scripts (and other add-ons) conflict (even tho we'll never totally be freed of that). We all know nobody ever thinks of posting a full list of scripts they use (with links to em) when there is such a problem.

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Originally posted by ddunk
Either way, using "/" for remote commands is an absurd idea and goes against what most people are used to.

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I agree with the fro one hundred percent

I thought it was pretty standard to use "!" for remote commands.

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Originally posted by markee
I see no point in Now Playing using !commands

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I have no freaking idea where that post is. I just copy pasted it from dt's post since i couldn't find it
Of course there is a point for musicNowPlaying having "!" commands. Remote commands can be used to allow file sharing directly and to see what your contact is hearing.