Shoutbox

Back to the topic.
What do you others think about it? Sunshine? vikke? Nile? Willz? Patchou?

Looking at the Open Source character of Plus! skinning this is to be expected (no resource is hidden). As long as it isn't almost exactly the same in looks i don't see a problem with it (like takin all original resources and only colour em differently for example).

How things are accomplished internally will be the same (or very much the same) anyways. And i do believe (and this goes especially for the skins released on release of Plus! 4.50) our skins are ment as an example on how things can be done too. I don't put comments in my SkinInfo.xml just for myself but for others to learn from as well.

If you are the first with a specific idea and made it real, be proud of it. If you had help with it at least thank that person in your release thread (everybody needs a lil help sometimes, nothing to be ashamed of). If somebody else likes your original feature and understands by reading your code and implements it, be happy you've set a trend.

Nobody is stopping you from including a README.TXT with your skin in which you ask people not to use your images without your permission...but do think before doing so.

Example: my skin exists out of Plus! resources i applied to extracted images and copyright free clipart found on the internet...wouldn't be fair to copyright them as my own (sure the result of Plus! resource slapped on original image is original..but that's where it ends).

Generally; I'll only be annoyed if not credited or get a thankful mention and I can see my code and or images, however I am glad people look at my sources and I highly encourage them to at this stage!

The amount of people I've pointed to Beaver and Steve for various things is unreal

I've also pointed people to sunshine's skylines as it has simpler changes and not too many so I can easily direct someone to the change and hopefully they'll notice how to layout the SkinInfo and how to add and replace images and how to change Styles files to show new images instead of the original resources etc.

Anyway back to topic at hand, unless it is a complete clone with few resources changed or only edited the resources present then I do not think that we should complain or take concern.

Copying 'ideas' too once again if the alternative is not a complete clone in the code and resources then I see no problem. After all there will be some alternative ways of doing things.

After all in general we are a great community here, and sort of look out for each other and and help everyone along

Yes but in mynetx case (to no mention mine)... any thankful post or messages were putted inside... and no permission was asked for... so...

I've only had permission asked from me once. I'm not going to get all high and corporate on my fellow community, that's just acting like the companies I hate the most, I'm sure you can think of those copyright nazi companies I'm thinking of...

I shouldn't and won't ask for permission to view someone's code and make any personal modifications or fixes to it, I will and do respect when mass amounts of graphics are re-used though so if I was going to release a new skin based mainly on another one I would ask permission to use the current graphics etc out of courtesy.

So yeah just to recap, as long as thanks, and respect where thanks and respect are due I'm happy. Which is the main reason I write the tutorials too, so I can help others, if someone cloned them off me and claimed as their own I'd be pissed off. But so far people have asked to translate it and host it on separate sites so I have no problem with that and of course gave them permission straight away

I'm soooooooo available to help and teach people how to do things... no to do and let them copy, less without my permission...

So, Sunshine and Nile, the way you do it is the way I do it as well, and surely as a prerelease skinner I got no problem that my (+Bram's) skin is being used as an example, as so-to-say a basis class where other skins are inherited from. But, as you pointed out, (1) some graphics are simply not worthy of claiming them as one's own, and (2) it's an honor to see people like the idea and techs and use them for their own ideas. As for complete cloning, I simply had been happy if Miamoto had asked me before. What we actually are is a living resource of messenger skinning topics, and I didn't know the number of users asking me, how should I do this, how to solve that... Our skins are a living example, and much better than any dry example in the skinning docs (although Patch did do much work with the docs).

Ok well I have been skinning for about 3 years now and this has definitely crossed my mind several times, but more so since the Plus! skinning feature.

A successful skinner is someone who respects their fellow skinners and can do something on their own, but is also not ashamed to ask for help. If you take a look at the skinners of the past you will know that everyone was pretty close and shared a lot of their code and resources.

Personally I do not like people touching my work without permission especially since I take the time to make my resources (unlike some people who just screenshot stuff) and code things up myself.

Its a matter of respect really. If someone asked for my help, then I would gladly show them code from my skins and explain how things work and how they can adapt it to suit their needs.

But on the other hand, if someone goes in and just edits stuff without asking and then releases it as their own work without crediting the original author..... well thats where I say I get a bit pissed off.

In terms of "stealing" ideas I believe that any skin that is based on an existing design or concept eg Microsoft or Apple isn't stealing. The only time it does become stealing is if someone actually rips code or resources to get ahead of the existing skin.

If the idea is homegrown, then thats where even taking the idea is stealing since the person took effort to make something unique. (Like I know I would be absolutely pissed if someone stole parts of Ev0 )

Its inevitable that there will be immature people who don't think about these kinds of things and will steal things. But the way I see it is if they stick to that route then they will never learn skinning properly nor will they ever have a hope of making a skin that will be truly polished or popular.

The only way we wouldn't be able to worry about this would be if the .plsk format was read-only and didn't extract everything to a folder for the public to see. But yeah thats all on Patchou. I'm not fussed about it at the moment since when most people take a look at my hectic code they give up

Obfuscation in practice

The other point I forgot to mention was that generally if someone rips and is found out, then there is a huge community response to the ripper and they generally get flamed

It has happened before so I know its true