Shoutbox

I'm not a skinner, but I have wrote some scripts in the past. It's not exactly the same, but I'll drop my opinion here anyway.

Back when I used to script actively, I regularly took a look at the source code of other interesting scripts. Not to copy it directly, but to learn how certain problems could be dealt with efficiently.
One of the things I noticed was that most scripters put a comment on top of each script file saying that if you want to use any code, you'll have to contact them through this@email.com or put their names in the about window or some place else.
I personally couldn't care less about people using my code for whatever they think they can use it for, so I put a comment on top saying "do whatever you want with it"

As I said, I am not a skinner. However, I can imagine that you could do something like that with skinning too.
It doesn't prevent copying, but it does remind people to contact you if they want to use anything from your skin.

Yeah, its nice to influence people... imitation is flattery.

in light of this topic i have to ask this. when me and Jason made our 365 logo we used 2 images from the messenger plus resources which are as follows.

messenger plus logo (indicating our love of messenger plus!)
a blue and green buddy (plusprefs sidebar for messenger tab)

the globe and the 365 numbers to my knowledge are either taken from the internet or are originals however only Jason knows the origin of those images, if necesarry i am happy to credit nicolas graphics and gpdc group for their graphics use in our logo and do apologise for not realising what we had done sooner.

I don't see a problem with someone looking at a working skin's code to find out how to do something, how else are you going to learn? Indeed you can ask someone, but people are busy and have other things to do. It'd be easier to look in someone else's skin to find out how to code something, that way you are learning by yourself.

That being said, I don't think you should just go ahead and copy their entire SkinInfo file. You should use their code as an example and adapt it to your needs. Just like a lot of people did with scripting, if you were new to scripting and wanted to create a function like someone else it was nice to be able to see their method. There is also these forums, if you can't do something, or something that should work is breaking, make a thread, their are people here willing to help.

Secondly, images should in no way be copied in my opinion. Unless it is an image the original skin creator got from an open source medium; i.e didn't make it themselves.

Being allowed to edit someone's image for your own use is entirely up to the skin creator, someone should not steal or edit images without asking, and it is then up to the skinner to decide.

My feelings about this ;o

The chance of this happening may not be very likely, but perhaps we could convince Patchou to make a more proprietary undocumented "encrypted" skin module for those who don't want people looking at the guts of the skin.  That way if someone wanted to rip a skin they'd have a lot more difficulty doing so.

Perhaps something a long the lines of a "Convert DLL to 'Encrypted Plus! Skin Module (EPSM)' tool"

quote:

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Originally posted by TheSteve
proprietary undocumented "encrypted"

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Just like Microsoft encrypts some of their resources, the thing most hated by the majority of skinners? That would be a step back IMO. In the end it will be reverse engineered anyway, Live Messenger must still be able to read the resources in unencrypted form in memory.

quote:

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Originally posted by MenthiX

quote:

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Originally posted by TheSteve
proprietary undocumented "encrypted"

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Just like Microsoft encrypts some of their resources, the thing most hated by the majority of skinners? That would be a step back IMO. In the end it will be reverse engineered anyway, Live Messenger must still be able to read the resources in unencrypted form in memory.

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Although people loathe RLEs, I have come to really like them. They are really innovative and really fun to use, once they can be written to...

So there are advantages to proprietary formats .

yeah shutup ipab, you and your easy peasy icon replacements ¬_¬

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Originally posted by aNILEator
yeah shutup ipab, you and your easy peasy icon replacements ¬_¬

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I think the new method is better, before you had to make sure every pixel was in place .

Look right now there isn't cases of ripping occurring yet (at least nothing major that is making someone pull their hair out anyway).

An encrypted system at this point would probably turn some people away from skinning since it is still early days. I believe that if indeed ripping does get out of hand at one point then an encrypted system would be necessary.

That way people who want to skin have the choice of either giving up or going to a community site to ask for help and look for tutorials and actually try to learn the stuff (This is directed at those who just download a skin and edit it and re-release btw )

If Patchou were to approach us and say "hey guys I can make the encrypted system for you, or I can make a whole bunch of new skinning features which would you like?"

I would go for the new features, since at the moment that is more important since there are some people who still doubt the power that the skin system has. (Plus there are a lot of little things I would like see done which would let me be a bit more creative )