Shoutbox

That piece of "spyware" and the nagging screen are possibly the most controversial parts of this great program.

I just think the wording is a little pursuasive and misleading on that screen. Believe it or not, many still don't have a clear understanding of the nature of adware and/or spyware and like many more never developed a habit to read the 1000-word license agreement, but by good intents they probably don't want to "refuse" to give their support. Such strong word and once the consequences strike, I could easily imagine the user's reaction.

Right now it sounds like it's the only way to support the program and one should feel guilty by not installing it because they simply refuse to show any support.

Try to phrase it more friendly--I mean, the inclusion of spyware has already given the software a negative tint--say, "I do not wish to install the sponsor programs, but am interested in supporting MsgPlus in other ways" then link to the support page with donations, merchandises, etc...I imagine there'll be better feedbacks on the subject.

Just a perspective...

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Originally posted by jegar

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Originally posted by ShawnZ

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Originally posted by LEE123
I'm not bashing his program - it's amazing code, and I congratulate Patchou on it. I just don't think he can expect an MVP for bundling adware with it.

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for the last time, they didn't remove him because his program has adware. they knew about the adware for ages, and they knew about it when adding him to the team. microsoft only removed him because people bitched.

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Sorry dude this is the official statement from Microsoft:

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" Cyril Paciullo was awarded with MVP status this year on the basis of his technical expertise and strong community contribution. However, his active MVP Award status was revoked as soon as the extent of the connection between his application and spyware was made apparent to the MVP Program."

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Source of article please?

Microsoft know that Messenger Plus! Live does not bundle spyware.

It's strictly not spyware, it's adware, but I like the suggestion about mentioning other ways of supporting Plus. If there was a third option it might cause users to think more about what they're clicking, and think seriously about supporting the software in one way or the other. I guess it depends on how it goes down with C2Media... I gather they refused to drop the nag in the installer once you'd said no once. I don't doubt that if Patchou thinks it's got potential that he'll at least try it to them. He's already done so much arm-twisting to get the package as free from the mainstream LOP woes as possible.

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
It's strictly not spyware, it's adware, but I like the suggestion about mentioning other ways of supporting Plus. If there was a third option it might cause users to think more about what they're clicking, and think seriously about supporting the software in one way or the other. I guess it depends on how it goes down with C2Media... I gather they refused to drop the nag in the installer once you'd said no once. I don't doubt that if Patchou thinks it's got potential that he'll at least try it to them. He's already done so much arm-twisting to get the package as free from the mainstream LOP woes as possible.

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Yep, but Patchou would probably be willing to change the design of the installer yet again.

People should realise that Patchou has changed the design of the sponsor installation area around five or six times now, he's worked his ass of to get where he is now with Messenger Plus! Live, and it's at it's peak.

Maybe he should just try out the multiple checking method, just to see how it goes.

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Originally posted by jegar
Sorry dude this is the official statement from Microsoft:

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"Cyril Paciullo was awarded with MVP status this year on the basis of his technical expertise and strong community contribution. However, his active MVP Award status was revoked as soon as the extent of the connection between his application and spyware was made apparent to the MVP Program."

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So all of a sudden it is spyware? That proofs to me enough about the exact reason why it was revoked and it is indeed exactly like people have said: because of some biased security MVPs who can't see beyond their eyeflaps and instead of investigating stuff they generalize, brand everything and everyone.

"the extent of the connection between his application and spyware"????? lol

This does sound seriously like a literal thing which one of those guys would say, but that is my opinion. Of course if a few security MVPs shout to MS it is spyware, MS will take action...

And unfortunatly (but logically), MS doesn't seem to investigate themselfs but blindly trust upon its MVPs. If the above quote is indeed the true reason then either MS is very hypocritical in their findings (as I said before, MS and Patchou still have a very good relationship and Patchou was invited more than once to RedMond to talk bussiness etc), or its findings are literally what those security MVPs has said, which means the knowledge level of those security MVPs is very low (in this case) and it proofs how they do not investigate stuff but simply shout and generalize.

MVPs should know the stuff they're talking about and MS also expects that they do not base their findings on arguments of a few others or base their stuff on 'google searches', but actually investigate stuff for themselfs.

If people, willingly or not, can't make or know the difference between adware and spyware, I question their knowledge level on this subject.

Unless they do know the difference but claim or want that everything is considered spyware in a 'let's-safe-the-world' kind of way, and as such they should start complaining to MS about MS's own products to begin with, or start complaining to google or any search engine for that matter. Heck even every page which stores info. Of course, they wont, as it is MS which has given them that very same reward.

Or unless they do know the difference but conveniently call it spyware as that is a nice way to put fear in the unexperienced user and let them use those anti-whatever programs instead. Marketing? To let the user use product x over product y (without mentioning anything about the product's accuracy)?


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Originally posted by (V)oribundenVampir
All the way back, LEE123 is "sort of right". Giving an award to someone that "indirectly pushes" (according to critics, or not) spyware to your computer is some kind of mistreating for the novice users who just clicked "YES"/"I ACCEPT" when installing MP.

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Originally posted by coolvi
That piece of "spyware" and the nagging screen are possibly the most controversial parts of this great program.
...
Try to phrase it more friendly--I mean, the inclusion of spyware has already given the software a negative tint--

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without commenting on the other stuff said (which I partially agree upon): it is not spyware...

When talking about the sponsor, call it with its proper definition. Constantly calling it spyware is one of the causes of all the trouble here.

Even calling it malware would be more correct as that can be somewhat seen as a general term for adware, spyware, virusses, etc... But spyware is certainly something different than adware!

Hahaha, dude, it's not so simple. We live in a world of law and politics, and reputation and image. I don't justify Microsoft but unfortunately this is the world we live in. One day people bow to you, the other they crucify you. But keep something in mind, just like they did with Christ, they're gonna kill you, but then they're gonna cry you for ages. This probes the human tendency to stupidity and self destruction. Ok, I think I am starting to focus on trascendental points, even this is also another reality - yet sad - I won't deepen on this topic.

But the truth is that, those security MVP may be judged as people who lack of knoweledge just like you stated yet unfortunately they're the ones who ruled this situation after all, or at least, so far.
Even if MS gave Patchou the award again, it would be pathetic, and if I were Patchou, I wouldn't even accept it anymore. It's quite a shame for a billionary company to move its tail towards certain group of people who decides who deserves the love of the community or not.

In the end, as I said, I won't like more or less Patchou, I know his work, I happily and thankfully use it and he more than anyone knows his software is a great acchievement. MSN would have never been the same without these third party coders who freely offered they creativity to the community. Unhappily, so far, there's no any other way to promote and help MP without it being sponsor/adware.

Now, wether MP is spyware, adware or whatever-ware, I still have people who I know that tells me that after they had installed MP, they system performed awfully. I wonder how this could be explained. I denote, this is not a critic, it's just a doubt, an incognit which keeps me wondering how could it be just a simple coincidence...

Let me first say that I totally agree with your reply.

As for the last thing: a system performing awfully because 'something' is installed, doesn't automatically mean that something is spyware though. It can of course be that... but a system can perform awfully with only installed adware too, or even with an installed program which doesn't even have any connection to adware or anything like that.

(Even Messenger and other MS products make my system crunch sometimes)

The sponsor program, as with almost all adware, calls home sometimes just as it is stated in the EULA. But of course not with personal info. It simply calls home to know what ad must be shown as the ads aren't hard coded within adware. To make sure you don't see the same ads too much, and to try and give you more ads which you might be interested in and less ads you might not be interested in it does of course send some info to the server-program like the stuff you searched for (but to make it clear: all this is anonymously, no personal info is send). This is basicly what every piece of adware does, even what Messenger itself does!!

What the sponsor also does is checking/polling if you or another program didn't accidently damaged it (to a certain extent of course), etc...

Now this phoning home and checking can indeed take some resources from certain low (or already prone to slow down) systems, but is by no means the definition of spyware.

To put it simply, spyware is stuff which, without your approval and behind your back, sends stuff to some remote address. Because of this, spyware also tries to make sure you can't detect it.

The sponsor program is very easly detectable and it even has a clear and perfectly working (if not damaged by a third party) uninstaller. I don't see spyware doing that...

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Originally posted by traxor

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Originally posted by jegar

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Originally posted by ShawnZ

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Originally posted by LEE123
I'm not bashing his program - it's amazing code, and I congratulate Patchou on it. I just don't think he can expect an MVP for bundling adware with it.

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for the last time, they didn't remove him because his program has adware. they knew about the adware for ages, and they knew about it when adding him to the team. microsoft only removed him because people bitched.

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Sorry dude this is the official statement from Microsoft:

quote:

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" Cyril Paciullo was awarded with MVP status this year on the basis of his technical expertise and strong community contribution. However, his active MVP Award status was revoked as soon as the extent of the connection between his application and spyware was made apparent to the MVP Program."

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Source of article please?

Microsoft know that Messenger Plus! Live does not bundle spyware.

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Just wanted to hop on and say bl about that Patchou... I'm sure Microsoft knows how great a guy you are... just that they can't really get away with saying a MVP helps install spyware (which is how it is on the surface for those dumb people out there..)

Wont repeat myself again, see MenthiX's reply in Congratulations Patchou on becoming an MVP!. Let's just close these topics.

Neowin right now is a flame fest against Patchou's bundle. Here is the most correct post said:


"I like the guy and his work, but I can agree with their decision. You can't have Microsoft endorsing adware/spyware in any shape or form."