Shoutbox

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
Seems like I am going to post here after all, even if I said to myself that I would stay out of this thread. Without agreeing or disagreeing, let me post a quick comment:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ddunk

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
It mostly the people who hang around on the irc  who pick on the new members, so really most of you guys are morons

---

Wow. Seriously. Fuck off. You've been on IRC like, three times? The first time you decide you want to flame the fuck out of us, then when you come back you expect us to be nice to you? Really?

Not one regular on IRC negatively repped the person mentioned at the start of this topic. Don't bring personal vendettas into this just because we aren't nice to you because you annoyed us first.

---

Even if we pick on new members in #banana it shouldn't be related back here, I know this might sound silly but #banana isn't officially related to Plus! anymore, it's just the most popular chat channel where the members meet. There is an official chat channel (#msgplus.chat), and if you would get picked on there you could report us and we would deserve getting banned.
On the forums I try to act as properly as possible, not "flaming" people for doing various things (I many, however, rant a bit about it on #banana, because that is somewhere else). If the member happens to be in that channel, he will of course get insulted, but he doesn't have to drag it to the forums.
In short, what I am trying to say is what is happening in #banana should be kept in #banana and not be dragged to the forums.
And now I'm gonna try to make and example of what I mean, which will probably be extremely bad:
Imagine that you are in a classroom (this is the forum), and you start talking crap about the teacher (and somehow breaking the school rules that say that no craptalking of teachers is allowed). You would then be taken to the principals office.
Now, on the break (official MsgPlus IRC channels) you and your friends are talking crap about the teacher, but no teacher is there so nothing happens to you - but if a teacher came or someone would tell about it to a teacher you would be again taken to the principals office because you were in school.
Finally, after school somewhere else (unofficial IRC channels), you and your friends are of course talking about the teacher. Suddenly, the teacher walks in and hears everything. But because it's not in school he can't enforce the school rules and nothing would happen to you, except your relation to the teacher would become worse. So, stuff you do outside school would carry over to school, but the consequences wouldn't be the same.

Because this example is so great, I will also use it to show how generalizing is bad:
Say the place outside school was a popular gathering place for the students, and the teacher would know this. He would assume that everyone is there, so next day in school he mentions that he is disappointed because all students are unfriendly towards him, even if a part of the class haven't ever been to the place. Also, some students might have been doing something else, so they were falsely accused.

I don't feel like I am being rude towards new members, so some times when someone says that "the people on IRC are morons" I feel falsely accused. However, if I'm rightly accused for doing something I need to be able to accept it. I'm guessing others are feeling like this as well.

None of my comments were aimed at anyone particular, and the examples are made up by me (that's why they are silly). I would also appreciate if you didn't quote me as "people on IRC" either.

---

We are not talking about how new members get picked on in the irc..... we are talking about how most of the members who pick on new member are from the irc.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
In short, what I am trying to say is what is happening in #banana should be kept in #banana and not be dragged to the forums.

---

on the subject of #banana. I think many have forgotten the reason why #banana was 'split' from the official Plus! channels in the first place. Guess what... it was the result of the exact same reasons why people make these rant threads. And as a 'solution' #banana was declared 'non-Plus! related' (as if that solved the underlying problems.... apparently not).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
Now, on the break (official MsgPlus IRC channels) you and your friends are talking crap about the teacher, but no teacher is there so nothing happens to you - but if a teacher came or someone would tell about it to a teacher you would be again taken to the principals office because you were in school.
Finally, after school somewhere else (unofficial IRC channels), you and your friends are of course talking about the teacher. Suddenly, the teacher walks in and hears everything. But because it's not in school he can't enforce the school rules and nothing would happen to you, except your relation to the teacher would become worse. So, stuff you do outside school would carry over to school, but the consequences wouldn't be the same.

---

Your example unfortunatly shows two things:
1) it is very hypocritical of those students
2) you tell exactly what people always have said in these rant threads: even if something negativly is done on #banana it has consequences on other (official) media/channels as well. It is the whole package: aka community. It is not because #banana is not 'official' anymore, that people all of a sudden can act like asses and talk behind other people's backs.

I'm not saying everybody on #banana does it, but it is part of the big issue: the attitude of the people in _general_. Thank god there are still people amung them too who don't act like ignorant brats thinking it is cool to be an ass.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
We are not talking about how new members get picked on in the irc..... we are talking about how most of the members who pick on new member are from the irc.

---

THEY AREN'T
Just because you had some bad experience two years ago MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NOW.

Apparently you didn't read my reply last time, so here it is again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by me
What we supposedly did to you on the forums (which is the matter on hand here, NOT irc) when you joined the forums two and a half years ago says absolutely nothing about how "most" people from IRC are abusing new members right now. Sure, I admit, we're not perfect, there's bound to be a few shots fired and some bad behavior, but no one (or group of people) is (are) perfect. But I can assure you, "most" of the people on IRC are not behind this.

---

Plus, you do exactly what Vilkku was making a point about.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
Because this example is so great, I will also use it to show how generalizing is bad:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
We are not talking about how new members get picked on in the irc..... we are talking about how most of the members who pick on new member are from the irc.

---

Does that have any relevance?

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
I think many have forgotten the reason why #banana was 'split' from the official Plus! channels in the first place. Guess what... it was the result of the exact same reasons why people make these rant threads. And as a 'solution' #banana was declared 'non-Plus! related' (as if that solved the underlying problems.... apparently not).

---

You are actually helping me prove my point. Let's play with this idea: would a similar channel on another network be any better, if the same kinds of discussions continued?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ddunk

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
We are not talking about how new members get picked on in the irc..... we are talking about how most of the members who pick on new member are from the irc.

---

THEY AREN'T
Just because you had some bad experience two years ago MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NOW.

Apparently you didn't read my reply last time, so here it is again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by me
What we supposedly did to you on the forums (which is the matter on hand here, NOT irc) when you joined the forums two and a half years ago says absolutely nothing about how "most" people from IRC are abusing new members right now. Sure, I admit, we're not perfect, there's bound to be a few shots fired and some bad behavior, but no one (or group of people) is (are) perfect. But I can assure you, "most" of the people on IRC are not behind this.

---

---

I did read your last post, and i am not making that statement on the experinces i had when i first joined i am basing my statement on what i have seen time and time again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
I did read your last post, and i am not making that statement on the experinces i had when i first joined i am basing my statement on what i have seen time and time again.

---

Okay, so we'll believe that's true for a few minutes. What would you suggest we (IRC) do about it?

Could you please put that question another way for me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
I think many have forgotten the reason why #banana was 'split' from the official Plus! channels in the first place. Guess what... it was the result of the exact same reasons why people make these rant threads. And as a 'solution' #banana was declared 'non-Plus! related' (as if that solved the underlying problems.... apparently not).

---

You are actually helping me prove my point. Let's play with this idea: would a similar channel on another network be any better, if the same kinds of discussions continued?

---

No it wouldn't be any better, because that is not the issue here. The issue is the attidude of people. And indeed, some people I speak about are indeed regular member of #banana too. The channel that has been declared 'non-grata' exactly because of the reasons talked about in these rants.

But declaring it 'non-grata' doesn't change the attitude of people on it (and off it!), just as closing threads like this don't solve anything, just as ignoring all this doesn't solve anything.

And that is what this is about, the attidude that many people (not all!) have these days towards other people, new and old. The fact that fewer and fewer can accept when things don't go their way. The fact that as soon as they get to be 'regular' they start acting like brats and forget they were once newbies too. The fact that people don't bother about what happens in the community. The fact that some people don't think before doing something. The fact that it is apparently considered cool to jump on people. The fact that it is considered normal to spam, laugh in people's faces, not report stuff and ignore rules and even guidelines. The fact that for some people common sense seems far away these days...

Selfishness, disrespectfullness, lazyness, ignorance, etc are all words which are heared more and more.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
Could you please put that question another way for me.

---

Er, it was pretty straightforward..
Imagine it is the oh so evil banana users doing this, what do you suggest we do about it?

Hmmm. i think it would be up to the mods to decide, but i think that the mods should warn the persons then if they continue, ban them.