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Is there an end to space
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CookieRevised
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RE: Is there an end to space
contracting, expanding, beginning, end.... these are all words that refer to things we can comprehend. Words that we use to try to make sense and try to understand....

When talking about the universe, there is something that scientists autmaticly do. They talk with basic human words but they use them to make theories which humans can't comprehend. There is not a single person who can understand and explain how big the universe is. We can only "imagine". That's because the human brain can't handle such complex stuff...

A nice example: Everybody knows what 3D is and can comprehend it. But there is also 4D, now imagine how that will "look". ("look", example of such a word which I talked about in the first paragraph. Actually "to look" means you can see something, and seeing means 3D, not 4D...)

And when we come to the universe-talk, everything is like that, we "say" it extracts/compresses. We can't comprehend that, because the universe is infinite, yet it contracts... So that should be impossible, yet it is possible (proven)...

The Big Bang (or something similar) has existed. Scientists say that everything comes from a single "something" (calling it "atom" would be wrong). This has been proven, yet we can't comprehend that or put it in words and describe it. We can only give a relative explaination and simplify it by doing that.

But by doing that, we also make mistakes on purpose. It is wrong to build further upon those "simple" explainations (with the included mistakes), and that is exactly what you're doing if you say things like "the big bang existed, so everything came from a single thing, so that means matter is finite"...

Also, another thing. Many people say that space itself contains nothing. Well that has been proven to be wrong. "Nothing" does contain something; there is something called "black matter", which is the opposite of matter. Again something we can't comprehend, but it does exist. So even if all the matter was contracted again (big bang-loop-theory), space would still exist and would be "filled" with black matter (or sometimes called anti-matter)...

Also don't forget that the laws of nature as we know them, don't exist in space as we know them. In space there are other laws. Laws which have to be yet discovered, or to put it in a better way: the big law has yet to be discovered. Because many laws have been discovered already. But many laws contradict other laws.

It's nice to talk about all this stuff, but you must not forget that it is just talking about very simplified things and thus you can't make assumptions and theories. We aren't scientists. We can only try to understand what those formulas means. Heck even scientists have often problems understanding their own laws.....

If you are interested in those things, I suggest to read a book from Stephen Hawkins (their is that dude again :p). His string-theory (everything exists of "strings") is very very very complex and explains many strange things happening in the universe (black holes, worm-holes, relativity, mini-big-bangs, contracting, expanding, lack of time, butterfly-effect, etc.. etc..), but at the same time it can realy explain the basic laws of nature (from Einstein, Newton, etc...) on earth as well. And although it is very complex, it can put things realy simple by comparing it to strings of a violin...

I'm going to end this strange post :p I can talk about it for hours, but my English isn't good enough to do that. All I can say is that it is fasinating and fun to talk about it. But let the scientists do their job, and let us do ours: enjoying life and wondering how beautiful it can be (and how shitty it can be).....

;)

This post was edited on 07-17-2004 at 06:22 AM by CookieRevised.
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07-17-2004 06:18 AM
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illuzn
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RE: Is there an end to space
You just reminded me of another thing cookie... the universe is not infinite! while there may be no "end" to the universe it actually has a finite "volume".

Also i remember another thing for the mathematicians out there to imagine this... if you imagine a mandelbrot set (the set of all points x+yi that do not diverge)

It has a finite area (clearly its volume is less than a binding rectangle you draw on it)

However it has an infinite perimeter since the mandelbrot set has infinite complexity. This could be an example of how the universe works... maybe i dunno....
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07-17-2004 06:27 AM
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CookieRevised
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RE: Is there an end to space
hehe, indeed, I was reading your post:

quote:
Originally posted by illuzn
You just reminded me of another thing cookie... the universe is not infinite! while there may be no "end" to the universe it actually has a finite "volume".
I wanted to reply that finite volume doesn't mean finite dimensions, so I kept that in mind while reading further:
quote:
Originally posted by illuzn
Also i remember another thing for the mathematicians out there to imagine this... if you imagine a mandelbrot set (the set of all points x+yi that do not diverge)
Exactly what I was going to reply ;) not realy an exact comparison, but the best I can think of also...

Indeed, this is a nice example of how things can work and that you (not you illuzn, you're clearly with me on this ;)) must not simply things too much...

In the basic laws of nature we all have learned that every object has a certain amount of volume since we can calculate the volume from it's dimensions. But this doesn't apply to certain things (like space)....
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07-17-2004 06:56 AM
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RE: Is there an end to space
i probably think theres an end i just thing no-one will every get there with the fuel and everything they might try one day could end in tragity
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07-17-2004 07:13 AM
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RE: Is there an end to space
Well, i think human minds can't think that further......is like wondering how god was made!

No  offencer everyone,...
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07-17-2004 07:43 AM
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Weyzza
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RE: Is there an end to space
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
[L]et the scientists do their job, and let us do ours: enjoying life and wondering how beautiful it can be (and how shitty it can be).....;)
Agreed... Nice essay, though ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe
Well, i think human minds can't think that further......is like wondering how god was made!
No  offencer everyone,...
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That's what I believe

I'm sorry to disturb you guys with your discussion, but I'd like to share some information that I read last year. Maybe this could help, maybe this couldn't...
I'm too lazy to check (8 pages of posts) if this URL has been posted before :p

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/universe_soccer_031008.html
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07-17-2004 08:11 AM
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RE: Is there an end to space
Well here's another thought of mine...
Kinda..I dont think we'll never get to that point...my idea i've posted few days ago...here's the quote...
quote:
Originally posted by johny
people...i just have this to say...
We weren't made to discover certain things...like the end of space...only the word in it..who called it space?a person who that is was enourmous...we are like a water drop in an ocean or a cloud in the sky...if someone has the answer for that question,please answer me how the world was born...i'm catholic and in my case i call it faith to believe in what god tell's us in the holy bible...

Just for the ones who don't believe in god...how do you think human kind appeard?:?

Like i said in a thread in wich we were discussion religious aspects...It just comes by (your idea) in what you believe in...
07-17-2004 01:15 PM
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illuzn
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RE: RE: Is there an end to space
quote:
Originally posted by Chloe
Well, i think human minds can't think that further......is like wondering how god was made!

No  offencer everyone,...


But wondering outside of the square is why we have a life as wonderful as it is today... imagine if nobody thought of using a round device to ease carrying loads now known as the wheel. Imagine a world with no computers, no internet and golly gosh no MP!3 :o

While all this conversation may seem meaningless now it will probably lead to advents like faster space travel and the like... and who knows maybe there is other life out there
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07-17-2004 01:57 PM
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Jhrono
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RE: Is there an end to space
man but mp3 and all the stuff your talking about were reachable things!!Don't compare The human being Appearance with mp3...
07-17-2004 02:00 PM
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RebelSean
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RE: Is there an end to space
I myself think there is NO end to space. It goes on for trillions and billions of lightyears (however you spell it). Thats what i think! :D
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07-17-2004 03:43 PM
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