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[Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
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riahc4
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O.P. [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
Well Patchou has announced a while ago that he has gained control again (sort of speak) and has mentioned a few times Messenger Plus! Live 5. Since we, the community, have a voice again, Id like to see what Plus! members would like in MP!L 5.

Here is my personal list
- Alot more additions to the Plus! Live scripting API

- A rewritten Plus! Chat Log

- Aliases (example: If you want /away to be /awayinyourlanguagehere. I know it is possible with Quick Texts and possibily a script but...)

- Remove some old commands (example: Only away and busy are now statuses so things like /brb should be removed)

- Remove Contact List Clean-up (until Microsoft fixes this I think it should be removed to stop confusing people)

- Enable thumbnail preview in Vista/7 for tabbed chats (each tabbed chat appears in its own thumnail like IE)

- Fix the OK/Apply button "problem"

- Add new and more complex commands
(Examples:
/maximize would maximize your window.
/nextchat would go to the next chat window that you opened.
/nexttab would go to the next tab in the window.
/tab 4 would go to the forth tab in the window.
/tab 4 "Im talking to someone right now" would send to the forth tab a message saying "Im talking to someone right now" without actually going to that tab and just staying on the current tab.
Also something more complex.
A example in Visual Studio, when you put (example) msgbox( , it will display the parameter which is I belive string. Well we can do something similar and instresting here:
/ shows all the commands (this is standard)
/sendmsg and a space would open a small list of for example different contacts to send a message to. Once you type out/select the contact another small tooltip would show saying you have to enter text maybe even auto inserting a " to start off
/tab and a space would open a list with the tabs opened/avaliable, their number and the contacts email/name.

With this we have a sort of just move around with the keyboard instead of having to use your mouse. Some of the commands are for power users while others might be useless but more commands (the more the better) would be great)

- (Added 2:06 AM GMT +1 3/11/2010)
More BBCode/forum tags. Things like:
[youtube=videolink][/youtube] (This one seems hard but if Winks are flashed based, why not directly just display a YouTube video in the conversation?)
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[code=C][/code] (This one would be awesome for programmers :) )
[quote ] [ / quote]

Again, some are useless (such as quote) but hey, they are there.

Also, I might be missing something logic here :P, but why arent IRC and BBCode allows at the same time?

- (Added 4:44 AM GMT +1 3/11/2010)
64-bit version
I actually got this from Patchou's "create the architecture" below although right now, it is pointless. If Microsoft decides to one day release a 64 bit version of Windows Live Messenger, then Plus! should also go the 64 bit route. I understand that programs such as WLM and MP!L dont need 64 bit but I think the next version OS from Microsoft (this is a personal opinion) which currently is on Microsoft's roadmap is codenamed "Windows 8" should be 64 bit only to further the transition to 64 bit. Im kind of going OT here but the builds currently from MS on the codenamed "Windows 8" OS are only 64 bit so it seems to be that way. Well this suggestion has gotten way offtopic :P



If anyone has anything else to add or modify some of my suggestions, post them. You might have a great idea :)

This post was edited on 03-11-2010 at 03:42 AM by riahc4.
03-10-2010 03:33 AM
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Chris4
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- A rewritten Plus! Chat Log
Can you explain why?

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Remove some old commands (example: Only away and busy are now statuses so things like /brb should be removed)
I still use "/brb" as I'm sure many others do because its quick and easy and still sets me as away.

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Add new and more complex commands
Many of them seem pointless - there's keyboard shortcuts for that. Why type "/nexttab" when you can just press CTRL+TAB? Why type "/maximize" when you can do it with a click of a button (or with ALT+SPACE+X) ... etc.
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03-10-2010 03:53 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
quote:
Originally posted by Chris4
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Remove some old commands (example: Only away and busy are now statuses so things like /brb should be removed)
I still use "/brb" as I'm sure many others do because its quick and easy and still sets me as away.


Not to mention that many other Messenger clients like aMSN still recognise and parse the old statuses.


quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Enable thumbnail preview in Vista/7 for tabbed chats (each tabbed chat appears in its own thumnail like IE)


That would be quite nice, although equally, the arrows work quite well.

What I would like is the ability to "un-group" conversations from the tabbing......and be able to have 2 or 3 different "sessions" of tabbed chats
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03-10-2010 06:52 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
I agree with Chris4

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- A rewritten Plus! Chat Log
You can already change the layout of chat logs if you whish (its XML), so please explain further.

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Aliases (example: If you want /away to be /awayinyourlanguagehere. I know it is possible with Quick Texts and possibily a script but...)
but what? As you said so yourself, you already have aliases, namely Quick Texts.

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Remove some old commands (example: Only away and busy are now statuses so things like /brb should be removed)
As long as such statusses are possible, those commands should remain! Many people still use them and some clients still show them.

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Remove Contact List Clean-up (until Microsoft fixes this I think it should be removed to stop confusing people)
Although I can see your point, I don't think it should be removed at all as long as the Reverse List can be checked out in Messenger itself. The Contact List Clean-up is more than just a simple 'Reverse List' list and is way more convenient to manage contacts than what Messenger offers. It is not because there is a problem with one column in the Contact List Clean-up window that the whole thing should be removed.

It could use some GUI changes though, so that people aren't too confused about it. But that will be done anyways for everything in Plus!.

This said, in the long run it will be changed anyways because the whole friends/buddy system in Messenger itself is probably going to change anyways to accomodate better integration with more networks (and part of those changes are already in place, hence the current problems with the reverse list - but I never said this, you haven't heared it from me).

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Fix the OK/Apply button "problem"
What problem? There is no problem...

People do use the 'apply' button when they want to change something without closing the window. 'Power' users and helpers quite often use that instead of 'OK'. Personally I would find it extremely annoying when there is only an 'OK' button which immediatly closes the window. It would make troubleshooting and helping people a lot harder and more annoying (especially when registry stuff is involved).

quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
- Add new and more complex commands
(Examples:
/maximize would maximize your window.
/nextchat would go to the next chat window that you opened.
/nexttab would go to the next tab in the window.
etc...
As Chris4 said most of what you listed is useless. You have either shortcuts for that, or they simply require one or a double click of mouse (eg: maximizing, etc.).

People are well used to working with keyboard and mouse together as it is way more faster and efficient. Keyboard-only junkies are extremely rare. But if you really really want it, you can still make scripts for such things. For the average user such commands are completely pointless.

--

The only thing I find usefull and interesting at first sight is the suggestion for intellisense for commands.

Although some things are hard to do. Eg: your example of /sendmsg isn't the best one because opening a 'small' window with contacts to send a message to will be troubelsome if you have like 200 contacts. However, it is another thing when it is implemented as an auto-complete and only after a maximum number of contacts are filtered already by what you have typed, the popup will show. Because a popup as large as your screen isn't very helpfull.

And now that I think about it, from the top of my head I don't know any commands (except for something like a new /status command or whatever) which would actually benefit from such a popup window. For most existing commands it is either pointless to list something (as the list would be way too big) or there isn't anything to list at all.

But the idea is nice for possible future commands. But for the existing commands there isn't any command which would need it.

-----

PS: There are already many threads with lists of suggestions for a future Plus! version. Why didn't you read and posted in those? This thread will simply turn into yet another list of often repeated and already discussed stuff. :(

This post was edited on 03-10-2010 at 07:19 AM by CookieRevised.
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03-10-2010 07:16 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
Oh dear... He's at it again...

The only good suggestion is intellisense thing so that users know parameters and such

ps cookie, I think he meant open chat windows not all contacts... Atleast that's how I think it should be

This post was edited on 03-10-2010 at 11:19 AM by NanaFreak.
03-10-2010 08:16 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
quote:
Originally posted by djdannyp
What I would like is the ability to "un-group" conversations from the tabbing......and be able to have 2 or 3 different "sessions" of tabbed chats
Very true. Although that is apparently very hard to do in a reliable way, suggested it before. Messenger 2010 seems to be getting tabs natively though, maybe MP!L5 can use that as a new base and improve on that.
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03-10-2010 12:32 PM
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O.P. RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
Alot of quotes here so excuse me if I mess up :)

quote:
Originally posted by Chris4

Can you explain why?

Ill just copy and paste what I put in another thread....

quote:
Originally posted by Myself

Besides a feature like this, I think the chat log should be written again from scratch.

I think the most important part that should be incorperated is to index the logs using the Windows Search engine. That and just so many others things: Example show by different terms such as instead of date folder, contact and log size, etc to of course searching by these same terms. Save DPs (in a compress and small format), save winks (such as reproduce the wink in the chat log), save voice clips, save emoticon sounds, etc etc.

The chat log is a feature IMO that should be rewritten almost from scratch. And I also think it was the first feature that intially Messenger Plus! was made for right? Messenger's log pretty much is on par (yes Plus' Chat Log still beats it but)


quote:
Originally posted by Chris4

I still use "/brb" as I'm sure many others do because its quick and easy and still sets me as away.

Well if typing a extra letter bothers you so much....:S

quote:
Originally posted by Chris4

Many of them seem pointless - there's keyboard shortcuts for that. Why type "/nexttab" when you can just press CTRL+TAB? Why type "/maximize" when you can do it with a click of a button (or with ALT+SPACE+X) ... etc.
I already noted that some are indeed pointless. You did not comment (or refused to) on the complex ones with parameters. And again, some of these are for power users who simply perfer to type out a command. Example: /maximize doesnt have to be that. It can be /max. I perfer typing quickly /max rather than clicking with my mouse or hitting Alt+Space+X.  Just like you perfer /brb over /away.

quote:
Originally posted by djdannyp

Not to mention that many other Messenger clients like aMSN still recognise and parse the old statuses.

These are suggestions for the official Microsoft Windows Live Messenger/Messenger Plus! Live, not 3rd party clients which are not compatible with Plus!.

quote:
Originally posted by djdannyp

That would be quite nice, although equally, the arrows work quite well.

What I would like is the ability to "un-group" conversations from the tabbing......and be able to have 2 or 3 different "sessions" of tabbed chats
Well Microsoft itself perfers to have diferrent preview windows for different tabs like in IE8. Might make it alot more uniform.

Makes tab chats without any point....but I agree with your suggestion that the option should at least be there. Might have tabbed chat window with msghelp members and another with your friends.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

You can already change the layout of chat logs if you whish (its XML), so please explain further.

As always, was waiting for your reply :P

Ill quote what I quoted above for Chris4:

quote:
Originally posted by Myself

Besides a feature like this, I think the chat log should be written again from scratch.

I think the most important part that should be incorperated is to index the logs using the Windows Search engine. That and just so many others things: Example show by different terms such as instead of date folder, contact and log size, etc to of course searching by these same terms. Save DPs (in a compress and small format), save winks (such as reproduce the wink in the chat log), save voice clips, save emoticon sounds, etc etc.

The chat log is a feature IMO that should be rewritten almost from scratch. And I also think it was the first feature that intially Messenger Plus! was made for right? Messenger's log pretty much is on par (yes Plus' Chat Log still beats it but)



quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

but what? As you said so yourself, you already have aliases, namely Quick Texts.

This is possible with Quick Texts? I belive Quick Texts only posts that: text.
Hmm I was thinking a case/example when I wrote the OP where Quick Texts would not do....Ill have to get back to you on this Cookie.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
As long as such statusses are possible, those commands should remain! Many people still use them and some clients still show them.

MS has obviously gone towards only have 4: Online, Busy, Away and Appear Offline. I think Plus! should head in that dirrection as well...

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Although I can see your point, I don't think it should be removed at all as long as the Reverse List can be checked out in Messenger itself. The Contact List Clean-up is more than just a simple 'Reverse List' list and is way more convenient to manage contacts than what Messenger offers. It is not because there is a problem with one column in the Contact List Clean-up window that the whole thing should be removed.

It could use some GUI changes though, so that people aren't too confused about it. But that will be done anyways for everything in Plus!.

This said, in the long run it will be changed anyways because the whole friends/buddy system in Messenger itself is probably going to change anyways to accomodate better integration with more networks (and part of those changes are already in place, hence the current problems with the reverse list - but I never said this, you haven't heared it from me).

I understand your explanation about it being a simple reverse to the current list in Messenger but if it doesnt work, why have that column? Would a better suggestion be remove that column? If it is better then yes, I restate my suggestion: Remove that column.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
What problem? There is no problem...

People do use the 'apply' button when they want to change something without closing the window. 'Power' users and helpers quite often use that instead of 'OK'. Personally I would find it extremely annoying when there is only an 'OK' button which immediatly closes the window. It would make troubleshooting and helping people a lot harder and more annoying (especially when registry stuff is involved).

I remember creating a thread on this but just couldnt find it....

The problem (its small nothing big and Patchou himself has commented about it in that thread) is that when you click on Apply, it remains clickable. That is not Windows uniform. If you click on Apply in almost ANY application, that button will gray itself out and be nonclickable. If you change something, it will become clickable again.

To sum up:
OK - Saves changes (or nonchanges) and does/does not apply them (programmer's choice). Closes window. All buttons still enabled
Cancel - Discards changes (or nonchanges) and does not apply them. Closes window. All buttons still enabled.
Apply - Saves changes and applys them on the spot. Does not close window. Apply button disabled.

That is how most (if not all) Windows applications work EXCEPT Plus!.


quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

As Chris4 said most of what you listed is useless.

I have commented this as well...

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

You have either shortcuts for that, or they simply require one or a double click of mouse (eg: maximizing, etc.).

Again you can apply a shortcut for /away and a click of the mouse for putting your status away. These commands are again for powerusers.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

People are well used to working with keyboard and mouse together as it is way more faster and efficient. Keyboard-only junkies are extremely rare. But if you really really want it, you can still make scripts for such things. For the average user such commands are completely pointless.

:|
Alot of people (just look at Linux) use ONLY their keyboard...Yes, for the average user this is pointless, but if this was a only average user product, why would there be a script API implanted???

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

The only thing I find usefull and interesting at first sight is the suggestion for intellisense for commands.

Although some things are hard to do. Eg: your example of /sendmsg isn't the best one because opening a 'small' window with contacts to send a message to will be troubelsome if you have like 200 contacts. However, it is another thing when it is implemented as an auto-complete and only after a maximum number of contacts are filtered already by what you have typed, the popup will show. Because a popup as large as your screen isn't very helpfull.

And now that I think about it, from the top of my head I don't know any commands (except for something like a new /status command or whatever) which would actually benefit from such a popup window. For most existing commands it is either pointless to list something (as the list would be way too big) or there isn't anything to list at all.

But the idea is nice for possible future commands. But for the existing commands there isn't any command which would need it.

If I was programming Plus!, I would have to think about it but for example (again this goes back to the keyboard/mouse thing), lets say I have a user on my contact list with the email abc@aol.com and another with acd@aol.com. I would type
/sendmsg
A small tooltip would popup saying this is for sending messages without opening a window
then a space which would popup a small list with all of my contacts.
I type:
/sendmsg a
and now Im reduced to a list with with 2 contacts: abc@aol.com and acd@aol.com.
Obviously, due to the letters order abc@aol.com would be selected first. I could either hit tab (or enter) which would automatically put
/sendmsg abc@aol.com |
with the "|" repersenting where my cursor is at and another small tooltip saying enter the message you wish to send

This is a small example. It can be expanded to shift+down to select alot of contacts. Using commas such as
/sendmsg abc@aol.com,acd@aol.com "hey!"
and stuff like that.
Obviously, this and alot more reasons is why I also suggested more expansion on the API.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

PS: There are already many threads with lists of suggestions for a future Plus! version. Why didn't you read and posted in those? This thread will simply turn into yet another list of often repeated and already discussed stuff. :(
Could'nt find any for Plus! Live 5. Sorry :)

This post was edited on 03-11-2010 at 12:56 AM by riahc4.
03-11-2010 12:50 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
Thansk for the list, always good to see :).

Messenger Plus! 5.0 will be the start of many new sites, we just have to create the architecture now, piece of cake :p.
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03-11-2010 03:20 AM
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O.P. RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
quote:
Originally posted by Patchou
Messenger Plus! 5.0 will be the start of many new sites, we just have to create the architecture now, piece of cake :p.
Many new sites? Create the architecture?

Those are the last phrases I would have thought of to see in this thread :P
03-11-2010 03:33 AM
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RE: [Suggestions] [Wishlist] Messenger Plus! Live 5
quote:
Originally posted by riahc4
quote:
Originally posted by djdannyp

Not to mention that many other Messenger clients like aMSN still recognise and parse the old statuses.

These are suggestions for the official Microsoft Windows Live Messenger/Messenger Plus! Live, not 3rd party clients which are not compatible with Plus!.


You've missed the point entirely.  whilst they are suggestions for Messenger Plus! Live, the statuses are still recognised by clients using the Messenger protocols, so it makes sense to leave them in.

If I set myself to "/brb" using Messenger Plus! Live, then any user on aMSN, etc will be able to see me as "Be Right Back".  Why take out functionality that still works?  It's not as if it does anything negative to WLM, it just sets you to the equivalent status.
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