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Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
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Hank
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
Beamy, i Myself use Mirc to.so Yes lots of people use Mirc, file sharing etc, im with Time on this one
11-03-2005 12:32 AM
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kittymew
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
Sorry if i didnt make myself clear ..I meant IRC as the the banana channel..not IRC in general terms....:(

my apologies as i can understand your misinterpretation.

Look guys i am not here to argue ..I just had some ideas..I am NOT..attacking IRC or IRC Banana ..I am jus saying that perhaps a gerneral consensus..not just a select few maybe in order..an open friendly discussion on what is working for banana and what isnt..thats all..I personally dont know..and you guys only know what you feel but what about everyone else ..the young person that left the IRC Banana chat ..the one whom started this thread.te ones that have problems with it...the others who think IRC banana works and is wonderful:)..why dont instead of dissallowing or closing or moving or dissasociation..why don't you come to a median..compromise..to benefit all?:)

11-03-2005 01:06 AM
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Omar
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
but beamy... what happens in banana is noone's concern now that is not the oficial chat channel anymore... :P

have any good ideas...? please pm them to Underlord (Sam is the channel owner)...

kthx... :)

This post was edited on 11-03-2005 at 02:01 AM by Omar.
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11-03-2005 02:00 AM
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CookieRevised
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
I didn't wanted to talk about it again, since the other thread got closed and since things were said as far as I was concearned.
But this is brought up again and the topic has shifted again from a suggestion to make an official chat channel to the discussion about how #banana is/was.
(and I also know some mods wouldn't be pleased with that)

But, thus after reading the many posts and arguments again I want to say the following:

------------

Some people need to learn what a community is and how a community works. Ever heared of Social Science or Group Behaviour Science? Maybe it would be good if we all studied that first...

IRC channels are also such a community or part of. And the Plus! IRC network is part of the Plus! community.

"Freedom of speech" is used some times as an argument. Sorry, but this makes me seriously laugh (a "green" laugh though). Not only contradicts it some other replies made by the same persons, there is also no such thing as freedom of speech in an average IRC channel. Why? Because each channel is ruled by its ops. They decide what is "freedom of speech".

An IRC channel has only freedom of speech if it has no ops at all and if there are no consequences at all when someone says something, anything. Thus "Freedom of speech" also means that people can come and talk like "I R the sex, give me your asl".

And the "I R the sex, give me your asl"-people and the likes (like abusive or other attidude-newbs) are not the issue here! The issue is about the too fast trigger finger actions of some people and often the insults or insuniations that fly around between regulars and normal newbies, thus not those attitude newbies who only come to a channel to stirs things up, or bot attacks or whatever! (and Time, this is what I meant earlier when I said you're very good at shifting topics and putting the focus on something else ;))

Some people who have replied in this thread may not know the ins and outs of IRC and the various commands and stuff, but they indeed seem to know how a community and especially its respected and/or "leader" members should behave and are seen by newbies and other people.

I have been on IRC since I was 17 years old (thus almost 12 years), and I have been member of a lot of different "communities" and have seen all sorts of them. From "anarchy" channels to "family" channels.

Things associated directly (aka official) or sometimes even indirectly with Messenger Plus! needs certain behaviour rules and patterns of its "leaders" because these are who make or break the image of Messenger Plus! towards the outside world. If you can't understand that, than I indeed question the "competence" of those people in context to "leading" a certain aspect of such a specific community.

Competence does not mean knowing all the commands and stuff, because that would be called "knowledge". Competence means being able to act in the proper way given the context you're in and taking in account the place you're in and what it represents to the outside world and how your actions are percieved by this outside world.

Also, some arguments have been given like "you want to make #banana full of rules, thus taking out all the fun" or something like that. Again making rules does certainly not mean taking out the fun of something. In fact it means making the place more fun for everybody, aswell for the regulars as for newbs! If people here talk about "setting some guidelines" or "making some rules" it does not mean make rediculus rules like "nobody can ever use the f word" or "you may never enter a line longer than 80 characters".

All to often I see such arguments as "rules kill the fun" (thus not only here btw).
Such argument is only used by people who don't have an idea how a large community is run or who despise rules themselfs or who are power hungry themselfs.

A good set of rules do not kill any fun at all, they make a place more fun for everybody instead of only "fun" for an elite group.
And a with a "good set of rules" I don't mean 500 lines of boring do-not texts. It could be very short; heck, in fact, if everybody was mature anough and knew how to act in a large family community you don't need any rules at all to begin with.

All I ask is some mature behaviour and mostly some consequent behaviour. This means, to give two random examples:
1) don't swear and/or kick newb people for comming in and asking "can I have you ASL", because you are bored or annoyed about something else or are in a bad mood. Instead tell them this is no dating channel, warn them (but kindly without swearing!) and what not, only if thy persist do what you need to do.
2) don't flood yourself with ascii art and kickbanning the next newb who comes in and do the same because he has seen you doing it.
These are not the best examples and may not represent the "problems" and/or "issues" fully, but they give a small idea. Thus, in other words, I'm not talking about the bot-attacks or whatever

And again, we're not talking about IRC as a whole, but about a specific IRC channel on a specific IRC network.

------------

quote:
Originally posted by Time
For the million people who come back to IRC everyday. They've embraced IRC how it is and they like how it is. You are limiting your viewpoint to just this one channel, on one server... IRC is vast. Big picture.
We are not talking about the vast IRC... We are exactly talking about a specific channel on a specific network. Don't shift and detour the topic...

quote:
Originally posted by Time
Of course it is freedom of speech, the freedom to talk about incest, and paste goatse at any time - that's what should exist.
Time, I'm sorry but this exactly sums up and exactly shows what I have against the current #banana and how it is led...

The current #banana is very closely associated with Messenger Plus!, this means also young people, inexperienced people, etc...

I have nothing against anarchy, goatse, porn or whatever. But everything has its place! If you can't understand that then indeed I question your "competence" as a leader of such part of the Plus! community.

As said before, you would be (are) an excellent op with massive knowledge about stuff on the "normal" IRC channel. But since #banana is seen as the chat channel of Plus!, also by newbs, and thus because it represents that part of the Plus! community IMHO you fail there. Because I see #banana as a part of the Plus! community, not as yet another random (almost "anarchy") IRC channel like there are billions.

And this exactly shows the problem also:
quote:
Originally posted by beamy-kitty
Enjoyment for who? Do you speak for everyone perhaps or just a select few.

With the current #banana I mean the chat channel listed on the offical IRC applet.

------------

Removing #banana from the official IRC applet is IMO a very good move in the right direction...

Making another (new) official chat channel with a different athmosphere than what #banana has become? Maybe, dunno...

I also know we had troubles before with chatting in #msgplus, and splitting this to a chat channel was a very good thing todo and I don't wanna loose that.
Unfortunatly that chat channel's athmosphere has been shifted seriously from what it was at the beginning.

IMHO, let it be for a while like it currently is: officially #msgsplus, and unofficially #banana. And as stated by someone before: If someone new wants to chat in #msgplus and there is help going on at the moment, refer them to any channel or network you like, but also say that actions taken in those channels do not nessecairly represent the Plus! community.

If troubles arise again with chatting in #msgplus, let's discuss this idea of RebelSean again...

------------

On a related subject:

Talking about such problems on a forum is one way of discussing this. A forum is a good place to do it in. Heck, a forum and a thread like this is called a "discussion platform".

Discussing something like this on IRC (and in #banana), would lead to nothing more than the use of oneliners, flames, not to mention kicks, etc. And things said on IRC can't always be read by those whom it concearns.

The IRC channels talked about and this forum are two major parts of the Plus! community. Yes, the "leaders" are not the same, but does that mean this can't be discussed on this forum?

The subject here is not "I was banned from #banana by x and yaddayaddayadda". For such things, IRC and talking to the person who banned, is indeed the proper thing todo. But this current discussion goes far beyond that.

------------

-me out-

This post was edited on 11-03-2005 at 02:17 AM by CookieRevised.
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11-03-2005 02:05 AM
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emit
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
Cookie: but the majority of the regulars want #banana to be like the vast IRC or as another anarchy channel, as you put it. Also, since you don't participate in the channel and are idle 99% of the time and you object so much why not just /part? #banana is not so closely associated with the Plus community as you imply, just because it is on the MsgPlus irc server doesn't mean it is instantly closely tied to Plus. It was shoved on the java applet de facto because it was the most populous non-help channel. Thankfully that is rectified. So now people can quit complaining about the channel having any impact outside of the regulars in the channel.
11-03-2005 02:21 AM
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lordy
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
ah cookie, your posts always take me several minutes to read :P

I went on IRC last night for the first time in a while, and I have to say it was better than the first time i went in there (i went in and was instantly called a disgusting name for no particular reason)

i dont see what everyone is complaining about, IRC really is a good palce to be!
11-03-2005 02:21 AM
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brian
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
For now the "chat" channel is #apple; we'll see how it will go.

Just for the records; anyone coming to flame; spam; will get banned.

I mean no any forum regulars joining saying this is wrong, etc.  I don't care, you know you're not supposed to do that, you get banned, tho I'll be less strict with guys using webchat, but again, after twice; three times of repeating/demanding not to; the ban will come.  I'm not going to ban from first time and am not expecting them to 100% know all the rules.
11-03-2005 02:34 AM
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CookieRevised
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RE: RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
quote:
Originally posted by Time
Cookie: but the majority of the regulars want #banana to be like the vast IRC or as another anarchy channel, as you put it.
yes, the regulars... Try understand about what I'm talking about: the issue is how mostly not-so-regulars see the #banana channel as the official chat channel and thus #banana gives a serious false picture of the Plus! community...

quote:
Originally posted by Time
It was shoved on the java applet de facto because it was the most populous non-help channel.
Indeed, and back then the channel was a friendly and fun place to be for everyone, hence why it got added.

And because it got added, it got officially and because of that you should have known the consequences of that and what that means in context of handling people, regulars or not.

If you wanted to make it into an "anarchy" channel (for the lack of better word) and/or do your own thing you should have parted yourself and created your own channel (on the Plus! servers or not) like there are so many.

So don't twist things around; don't blame the fact that it got added to the applet and made officialy for the things which happened much later on and which I'm talking about.

quote:
Originally posted by Time
Also, since you don't participate in the channel and are idle 99% of the time and you object so much why not just /part? #banana is not so closely associated with the Plus community as you imply
Yes it is! (was).

And again, don't bring in the idling or whatever. What has that got to do with anything? Even if I was never part of the channel, or even IRC all together, all my arguments still count. (and FYI, IIRC I was on the Plus! IRC channels before you became a regular)

Either you know about what I'm talking about but are so stuburn to not let it show (wouldn't be the first time) and enjoys aggravating people,... or either you need to brush up on your reading and especially "understanding in the bigger picture" skills...

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that I'm constantly talking about how other people see #banana and how other people are treated in #banana. This isn't about me idling in a channel or about me not knowing what to expect on IRC or not about me not being able to defend myself from aggressors on IRC..., this is about defending the image of the Plus! community to the outside world.

And FYI, I still idle there instead of parting it, because I care about what happens in an official (or much used) channel, just because of the image it represents officially or not. If it wasn't so tight to Plus! I would have parted it long time ago, just as I parted (or even never was a member of, like #B-bombs, #Jaguar, #moo, #web2messenger or other channels on the Plus! IRC server) other IRC communties/channels which I don't care about anymore or which I have no interest in anymore.

This post was edited on 11-03-2005 at 04:15 AM by CookieRevised.
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11-03-2005 02:56 AM
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Underlord
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
Can you people stop bickering. Maybe someone should speak to me, instead of bitching about my channel behind my back. It's really apreciatied. Changing the chat channel to #apple makes no sense to me. There are the same users and ops there. It will make no difference. Some of you have been on IRC for what..? Five minutes? I'm sure you really understand how IRC works and how many people use IRC every day. Banana ISN'T... I will repeat that ISN'T a daemon channel. 99% of the time it is just people chatting. None of the regular users have problem and not all of them are "leet". They have just learnt to accept that IRC IS NOT THE FORUMS. On that note, IRC has nothing to do with the forums and bitching about it here really isn't helping your cause. #Banana isn't the "Official Chat Channel" anymore. So you can stop your whining and ramblings. No one makes you go there. So if you don't want to, then please don't. If you don't want to be there i'm sure we don't want you there. We do talk to people who want to talk. If they say things like "hoo wants to cam wit me" we will kick them. We don't want people who want to cyber there. I think that is pretty self explanitory. If anyone has noticed the people in #msgplus consist of a group of #banana users. We help more people than on the forums by atleast three fold. So don't say, "oh i'd be happy without IRC", because you have no idea what you re talking about.

This post was edited on 11-03-2005 at 06:53 AM by Underlord.
11-03-2005 06:47 AM
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RE: Official Msgplus Chat Channel?
think it should be run by someone else who dosent have a gruop that bullies people underlord did a great job but some of the other people on there didnt


P.S read my sig

This post was edited on 11-03-2005 at 06:52 AM by Discrate.
11-03-2005 06:51 AM
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